STICKMAN'S LETS LEARN CNC THREAD

@Stickman393
Came across these when googling a week ago after your router failure.
They have a handful of decently priced 110V but it seems water cooling is needed for any decent power.
Do you have a hot water heater you could branch off? Just turn it off when milling...
As long as it's not shower time, no one will notice.
Every single one of those spindles would have the same problems mentioned before. Water cooling doesn't exactly equate to power. Its most likely the gearing ratio combined with the spindles input power that's doing the work.

I've looked into those spindles at Aliexpress. The weight alone for some of these spindles is enough to make you consider the power in the z axis needed to raise and lower it properly and accurately!
 
^I appreciate you keeping an eye out. Makes stickman's heart feel happy, like stickman isn't just shouting out into the void about HEY I THINK THIS STUFF IS REALLY COOL!

Thank you 😊.

Option 1 on that page is particularly affordable, though I would need to source a pump/radiator and VFD to go with it.

It's probably the same one as is available on Amazon here: https://a.co/d/iSn7LcB

The only reason I'd run it to my hot water heater would be to engage in a heat-recovery strategy...basically, carry away the heat generated by my spindle and reject that heat to the water coming into my water heater. Which could very well work! But it wouldn't have much upside, really.

In reference to my previous post: all motors generate heat because we have no frictionless materials: that heat will build up unless it is dispersed.

By FAR the more common method of dissipating heat in a motor is rejecting that heat to air. Typically an internal fan will handle this.

Water-cooled motors simply reject the heat to water, which then is transported to a heat exchanger that then rejects that heat to air.

Which is better? From a heat transfer perspective: water. Absolutely. Water has a specific heat of 1: one BTU will raise the temperature of one pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit. The specific heat of air is much, much lower: therefore, water is better at carrying heat.

But from a maintenance perspective? Air. Because with air, there is no pump to fail. There is no worry about galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals being used in the loop. There is a much lower potential for clogs to form and destroy your spindle's ability to reject heat.

Heat is a killer for these things: an increase in heat will increase resistance. An increase in resistance will result in an increase in heat produced by the motor's windings. On and on until you don't have a coil of wire any more, you have a lump of oxidized slag.

It also reduces lubricant viscosity, which can reduce its ability to lubricate. That increases friction, which can grind your bearings into oblivion.

As far as the low speed spindle options online, here's a link I've found:


They're reasonably priced considering the market for 2 pole spindle motors. But they're on the higher end of what one would expect to pay for a spindle like this.

That's a 4.8kg option. Pretty heavy, honestly. Not sure how the math works out, but I know that many, MANY hobby CNC machines tend to use 8mm/rotation lead screws. If one was to swap that out with a 2mm/rotation lead screws and nut, one could sacrifice a little bit of speed for extra torque.
 
I asked about the hot water heater thinking maybe you could "borrow" that 220 circuit, getting you out of the 110 limit predicament.
I may have a spare vfd if you need it. I'll have to dig around tonight.
 
I asked about the hot water heater thinking maybe you could "borrow" that 220 circuit, getting you out of the 110 limit predicament.
I may have a spare vfd if you need it. I'll have to dig around tonight.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. Duh.

Jeeeze. Nah, here in the bay area the majority of our heat is natural gas. At least it was until recently. New construction is all electric resistance heat and heat pumps.

Honestly, the panel is in the front right corner of the garage. Little 12/2 Romex ran up high and a new breaker. Easy as pie.
 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. Duh.

Jeeeze. Nah, here in the bay area the majority of our heat is natural gas. At least it was until recently. New construction is all electric resistance heat and heat pumps.

Honestly, the panel is in the front right corner of the garage. Little 12/2 Romex ran up high and a new breaker. Easy as pie.
Quick glance says no vfd. Had some kicking around had some kicking around when trying to develop a bench test jig for a 3 vfd cooling controller for amps in a GE MRI at the last employer but seems I may have actually returned them all. Damn me for being honest.
 
Also: I've only used this thing to cut through some 1/2" plywood so far, but I recently picked up a laser engraver as well.

These things have gotten pretty cheap recently. The entire setup including the honeycomb board and air pump cost about 300 dollars. It's got a 10 watt output diode laser.

This gets around a lot of the difficulty with engraving and carving aluminum enclosures. The machine does not need to be nearly as rigid.

Important things to point out about laser engravers:

You're never going to engrave bare aluminum with a commercially available blue diode laser. Not gonna happen.

You can certainly *mark* aluminum. But you're going to need specialty laser marking paint or some dry moly lube to facilitate the process. Aluminum is reflective: it's not going to absorb the energy you're directing at it.

Also: ventilation. Super important. We're burning shit here. Nasty, poisonous fumes.

Lasers should be *perfect* for pre-painted enclosures, as they will burn off the powdercoat quite easily.

I'm currently struggling a little bit with mine: workpiece locating is a PITA. One of the primary advantages with lasers, though, is Lightburn. Seriously. I hear the developers of lightburn are making something for CNC routers, and I cannot wait.

Lightburn allows for webcam integration with accuracy within 1mm. That means you can stream a view of the workbench to your desktop and design directly on the surface of the enclosure. Pretty nifty.

I've got mine setup in the garage right now with a mini PC that I remote into. It's been going...eh...not great. That's primarily because of my wifi connection in the garage though. I've got a new adapter for the PC with a pair of high gain antennas to help with my connectivity issues.

In learning about lasers, there are three commercially available types:

Diode lasers. Cheapest. Typically on a gantry style syste. Anywhere from 5-80watt output. Big jump in cost between 10 to 20 watt. Typically operate in the visible spectrum, cannot directly engrave metals without a coating.

--sub category: infrared 1064nm diode lasers. Top out at 2 watts. About 2.5-3x as expensive as a 10watt laser, but can actually engrave bare aluminum. Slowly. *Very* slowly. So slowly that they're typically marketed for jewelry engraving. Not commercially viable, but certainly doable for DIY on 125b enclosures if you're OK with waiting.

CO2 lasers: dunno much about these. Typically gantry-based as far as I can tell. More expensive, and typically more powerful than diode lasers. Visible spectrum lasers, cannot typically engrave metal without a coating.

Fiber lasers: most expensive. Tend to be stationary with a "galvo" head (uses automated movable mirrors to direct the laser beam into the workpiece). *EXTREMELY* fast working. Tend to work in the 1064nm IR range and be more powerful than diode IR lasers. Some work in the visible range, some cheaper models are quite weak. The galvo head is both a blessing and a curse, as these tend to have the smallest workspace area of the bunch, and larger areas come with an increase in cost. There are some cheaper models that come with a trolley for extending one axis, but this slows down the operation considerably. Still, it might be the only way to pick one up that can do a bunch of different enclosures for under 3K.

--sub category: I've seen split fiber lasers with a gantry module connected to a power supply/laser generator via some cabling. These tend to be much more affordable (some under 1K) and far more powerful than the 2w IR diode laser modules. This seems ideal for DIY, as they pack about 10x the punch of the IR diode. Not as fast as a galvo model, but far more workspace area is opened up. Need to read more.

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Nice laser! i'm on the fence about getting the attachment to swap my mill into a laser, see i've never used one. I dont have a current use case for one. But damn, I want one! haha. Is that a performance mod you got there on your power supply? or is that just OEM tape? Seriously though, I'm r rockin the same offline controller. Have you found any way to use probe with it? If its even possible. I was searching and came across someone saying its possible if you have a NC doc on the controller containing "
G90G21G38.2Z-50F100
G92Z14
G0Z25
M30"
But I havent even looked what that code even means..

Anyways nice setup man
 
View attachment 84577View attachment 84578

Another wah pedal base.

I've decided that if I'm going to be going through the process of changing bearings on a router, I should have a backup on hand.

Thus: the genmitsu. It appears on paper to be less powerful than the Makita, but it's certainly using more modern tech. Permanent magnets. It's only rated up to 1hp vs the Makita's 1.25hp. But! It also has the ER-11 collet.

First pass, 1526mm/s, 0.1mm depth of cut, 0.05mm chip load per revolution, 30,000rpm, 3.175mm 0 flute end mill. Not even breaking a sweat. Finishes are quite good, only needs a light deburring of the edges.

I'm gonna stick a power meter on this thing and see how deep I can get before I top out around 1HP, then I'm gonna roll it back a bit.

The dust collection is woefully underpowered. That's gonna be my next upgrade. I figure...swap spindles if I kill em. If the bearings go out, replace the bearings. I should be able to make em last a bit longer if I monitor their current draw.

Eventually I'll get a more powerful spindle. For now, this'll do.
Who makes your machine? or did you just upgrade the hell out of a 3018? the steppers, rails all look way stronger then mine
 
Nice laser! i'm on the fence about getting the attachment to swap my mill into a laser, see i've never used one. I dont have a current use case for one. But damn, I want one! haha. Is that a performance mod you got there on your power supply? or is that just OEM tape? Seriously though, I'm r rockin the same offline controller. Have you found any way to use probe with it? If its even possible. I was searching and came across someone saying its possible if you have a NC doc on the controller containing "
G90G21G38.2Z-50F100
G92Z14
G0Z25
M30"
But I havent even looked what that code even means..

Anyways nice setup man
Oh man, the tape.

The PSU that shipped with this thing was garbage. Couldn't even handle the LRA of the stock the spindle with a soft start.

The IEC connector wasn't particularly snug either. Thus the tape. Real redneck shit right there.

I grabbed a better supply for my steppers, the spindles are now a Makita and a genmitsu trimmer router, so no added load to the PSU.

Probes: absolutely!

Z probe is easy enough. I'd have to look through my notes to figure that out.

Everything else...gets tricky.

I'm able to get an XYZ probe to run easily on enclosures with a corner hole probe and CNCJS. I use a spark concepts zero 2 probe, but any hole probe of known dimensions should work.

The thing about CNCjs is that it uses a modified version of Gcode that enables mathematical functions. That way, one can run a simple hole probe macro, have CNCjs determine the bit diameter, and end up a few moments later perfectly zeroed to bottom left.

The problem, I find, is a) no height mapping on CNCjs (less than ideal for engraving on large enclosures with uneven surfaces, though generally not necessary on a 125b).

Generally, I'm set up pretty well in open CNC pilot for my basic work. It's a simple no nonsense interface...not the most fully functional thing in the world, but certainly has all the stuff I need at a few taps.

Eventually I may transition to linuxcnc: I hear that ecosystem is far more fleshed out than GRBL.

Anywho...g90: absolute mode
  • G21: metric mode
  • G38.2: probe towards a target, stop on contact. Generates an error if the probe goes through the distance specified in the next step without making contact.
    • --G38.2 (Z-50): drop the z axis 50mm, or until probe contact is made
      • ----G38.2Z-50(F100): do the above at a rate of 100mm/minute.
The machine will probe Z downwards at a rate of 100mm a minute for 50mm, or until the probe contact is triggered. If it travels the full 50mm without making contact, it will generate an alarm

  • G92: set position
  • G92(Z14): Set the current position to 14mm on the Z axis. The number after Z should be adjusted to match the actual thickness of your z probe. Or, if you're just using the conductivity of a bare enclosure to probe (no probe plate between the spindle and the workpiece) this number can be set to 0.

The machine says it's Z axis zero point using an offset to denote the thickness of the specific z axis probe being used.

  • G0: linear move
  • G0(z25): move the z axis to 25mm.

The z axis retracts to a safe position 25mm above the workpiece.

  • M30: program end.

All is well.

Who makes your machine? or did you just upgrade the hell out of a 3018? the steppers, rails all look way stronger then mine

AnoleX. Great piece of kit for the cost. Fairly rigid, nice linear rails, does wonderfully with a trimmer router.

Still only nema 17s, but basically the strongest nema 17s one can buy. Lead screws, not ball. Could be better in a few ways, but it's gonna do until I get my c beam CNC finished.

Gripes: the X axis piece is just a bit of lightweight 2080 aluminum extrusion. Honestly, it's good enough, but might end up directly bolting and epoxying a solid piece of cold rolled steel to the back of it in order to increase rigidity if I ever decide to swap the controller.

The sides are solid aluminum, and could be thicker. But, honestly, they're good enough.

The plastic standoffs that came with the unit for mounting the nema 17's are cheesy as hell. I swapped those with some threaded spacers.

The PSU: see the beginning of my post.

The stock spindle is garbage. Only good enough for engraving work.

The stepper motor drivers arent tweaked to match the motors. That means that they're a whole lot less capable until one trims them to provide adequate current to the steppers. (This isn't really a gripe: one needs to know how to do this sort of thing).

The steppers themselves are internally fused...but via PCB trace. I burned up a trace while swapping the a4988 drivers for TMC2208s. Those come pre-configired for a higher base current, beyond what these nema 17s can handle. I learned this the hard way.

The PCB trace was easy enough to solder a bridge wire onto, but it's worth mentioning. Would have greatly preferred to see a thermal fuse here instead. I doubt thats common with these cheap steppers though.

But...those are all just little gripes. It's more than capable, properly set up.

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The problem, I find, is a) no height mapping on CNCs (less than ideal for engraving on large enclosures with uneven surfaces, though generally not necessary on a 125b).
Is your machine mach3 or grbl? When I had my smaller CNC it ran grbl and I ran it with bCNC (Linux only, but I found a workaround to make it run in windows) which does have height mapping with a z-probe. Mach3 has an auto z-axis probing feature, but it only does one point, I haven't found any software that will do a full map on mach3 which is what my new machine (and frankly most machines) is.

Height mapping makes a huge difference when you're doing things like milling PCBs or fine enclosure engraving (neither of which I do anymore), but it's less important when you're just cutting holes in things.
 
Is your machine mach3 or grbl? When I had my smaller CNC it ran grbl and I ran it with bCNC (Linux only, but I found a workaround to make it run in windows) which does have height mapping with a z-probe. Mach3 has an auto z-axis probing feature, but it only does one point, I haven't found any software that will do a full map on mach3 which is what my new machine (and frankly most machines) is.

Height mapping makes a huge difference when you're doing things like milling PCBs or fine enclosure engraving (neither of which I do anymore), but it's less important when you're just cutting holes in things.
GRBL, not even GRBLhal. I'm 8-bitting this bitch.

The good news is that bCNC has received a windows release...dunno how long ago that happened, but it's here as of a handful of months ago.

I tried bCNC out a while back on an older, slower mini PC. Its a bit of a resource hog in a windows environment: that old computer could barely run it. It also had the annoying tendency of adjusting my travel moves after height-mapping in such a way that It drove the end mill into the project while traveling.

Got frustrated, switched back to what I know. It's an impressive piece of kit for a GRBL setup, for sure. I might give it another whirl now that I've got a better, N95-driven windows machine to run it.

I'm also super interested in giving linuxCNC a shot one of these days. Gotta buy new hardware to go that route, but from what I hear it's a considerably more feature-rich environment. I could also go the way of GRBLhal: that seems to be progressing fairly well now that more makers are getting onboard with producing 32 bit controller modules.
 
GRBL, not even GRBLhal. I'm 8-bitting this bitch.

The good news is that bCNC has received a windows release...dunno how long ago that happened, but it's here as of a handful of months ago.

I tried bCNC out a while back on an older, slower mini PC. Its a bit of a resource hog in a windows environment: that old computer could barely run it. It also had the annoying tendency of adjusting my travel moves after height-mapping in such a way that It drove the end mill into the project while traveling.

Got frustrated, switched back to what I know. It's an impressive piece of kit for a GRBL setup, for sure. I might give it another whirl now that I've got a better, N95-driven windows machine to run it.

I'm also super interested in giving linuxCNC a shot one of these days. Gotta buy new hardware to go that route, but from what I hear it's a considerably more feature-rich environment. I could also go the way of GRBLhal: that seems to be progressing fairly well now that more makers are getting onboard with producing 32 bit controller modules.
Oh cool, I didn't know bCNC got a windows release. It was the main thing I missed when I got my new mach3 machine, it felt like mach3 had less features than bCNC.

I'm trying to remember the name of the CAM software I used to use before I got Aspire, it has some really handy PCB-specific tools that made it easier to do 2-layer boards at home. That was a gamechanger for me.

EDIT: remembered the name, it was CopperCAM.
 
Looks like big tree tech just released a new CNC controller board that looks *very* appealing:


These folks have specialized in 3d printing for a while. This board is WiFi capable and fluidNC compatible. And cheap!

16 bit, great stepper drivers, plenty of features. I might end up picking one up.
 
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Looks like big tree tech just released a new CNC controller board that looks *very* appealing:


These folks have specialized in 3d printing for a while. This board is WiFi capable and fluidNC compatible. And cheap!

32 bit, great stepper drivers, plenty of features. I might end up picking one up.
$43 with coupon
 
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