Paradox916
Well-known member
I thought we were collectively riding on the PRS playing lawyer’s?
Tonewood Does Matter!
- Thread starter music6000
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cwsquared
Well-known member
I think you're right.
It doesn't really matter too much when you're a great player. I just wish I was! My friend who works in the guitars store is a great player and when he plays any guitar it automatically sounds better than when I play it. :-(
I wouldn't be surprised if some guys can't hear the difference. I can remember when I started playing I had trouble hearing octaves, and now that seems incredibly obvious. When I first started playing a Martin didn't sound so different from a Yamaha. Now it's chalk and cheese. Your ear does develop along with your playing. I remember trying every different way of hitting a string with a pick to see if I could get Billy Gibbons style harmonics. All of that experimentation becomes part of your playing after a while. Listening is a critical part of playing. Sounds obvious, isn't so obvious to some people!
I wouldn't be surprised if some guys can't hear the difference. I can remember when I started playing I had trouble hearing octaves, and now that seems incredibly obvious. When I first started playing a Martin didn't sound so different from a Yamaha. Now it's chalk and cheese. Your ear does develop along with your playing. I remember trying every different way of hitting a string with a pick to see if I could get Billy Gibbons style harmonics. All of that experimentation becomes part of your playing after a while. Listening is a critical part of playing. Sounds obvious, isn't so obvious to some people!
Guardians of the analog
Papi Fuego
If @Paradox916 is Doc then I'd gladly be Wyatt.
SillyOctpuss
Well-known member
I like Paul Smiths theory that everything is subtractive. Things dont add to the tone of a guitar but some parts will remove less bass or treble etc.
He said something like if 10 was the most amount of energy you put into a string then 10 is the most you could possibly get out of the guitar. They're not magical items and can't add a bunch of frequencies that aren't there to start with. Some instruments will remove less frequencies than others and a great instrument for him is when you put 10 into a string and can get 9.9 out of the guitar. I think Jim Lil actually seems to prove Paul's point with his final 'experiment' between the strings suspended over a pickup and the suhr guitar.
To those that can't stand Paul then probably best not to watch the Ted Talk but for those who find him interesting it's worth a watch.
He said something like if 10 was the most amount of energy you put into a string then 10 is the most you could possibly get out of the guitar. They're not magical items and can't add a bunch of frequencies that aren't there to start with. Some instruments will remove less frequencies than others and a great instrument for him is when you put 10 into a string and can get 9.9 out of the guitar. I think Jim Lil actually seems to prove Paul's point with his final 'experiment' between the strings suspended over a pickup and the suhr guitar.
To those that can't stand Paul then probably best not to watch the Ted Talk but for those who find him interesting it's worth a watch.
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
The materials that a string is connected too will affect the way it vibrates (which last I checked on a guitar were the bridge saddle and nut/fret), as will the person holding it and the way they are plucking them. Electric pickups don't (or shouldn't) pick up sound waves created by the vibration of the string, they should only collect the disturbances in the magnetic field that are created by the vibration of the string.
This being said, there's no substantive evidence (that I'm aware of) to determine how much different materials effect the vibrations and even if there were, you would need to run these tests on each individual guitar because saying something like 'Basswood gives a bright tone' is a bit of a stretch considering that Basswood is an organic material and therefore subject to a (probably) very large range of standard deviation from the norm.
Even if you could quantify how different materials effect vibration with a small enough level of standard deviation to make the results worthwhile, you would then have to quantify if these differences to string vibration are 'good' or 'bad'. To do that, you would first have to survey enough guitarists (who had passed a double-blind test to prove they can discern such differences in the various materials) to obtain an accepted standard or what is considered 'good' versus 'bad'.
So I'm not going to say that what a guitar is made of can't effect string vibration, but what I would say is don't get hung up on it. Don't buy some expensive guitar that's made of pink ivory from the guarded vaults of the Zulu chieftain just because the advertisement in Guitar Center says it gives the instrument 'exceptional tone'. Play it and decide for yourself.
I'll also leave this here.
www.npr.org
This being said, there's no substantive evidence (that I'm aware of) to determine how much different materials effect the vibrations and even if there were, you would need to run these tests on each individual guitar because saying something like 'Basswood gives a bright tone' is a bit of a stretch considering that Basswood is an organic material and therefore subject to a (probably) very large range of standard deviation from the norm.
Even if you could quantify how different materials effect vibration with a small enough level of standard deviation to make the results worthwhile, you would then have to quantify if these differences to string vibration are 'good' or 'bad'. To do that, you would first have to survey enough guitarists (who had passed a double-blind test to prove they can discern such differences in the various materials) to obtain an accepted standard or what is considered 'good' versus 'bad'.
So I'm not going to say that what a guitar is made of can't effect string vibration, but what I would say is don't get hung up on it. Don't buy some expensive guitar that's made of pink ivory from the guarded vaults of the Zulu chieftain just because the advertisement in Guitar Center says it gives the instrument 'exceptional tone'. Play it and decide for yourself.
I'll also leave this here.
Double-Blind Violin Test: Can You Pick The Strad?
Researchers presented a group of professional violinists with a set of violins and asked them to play and then determine — based on sound alone — which were made by the famed Italian violin-maker Stradivari and Guarneri. The results surprised everyone, including the pros themselves.
www.npr.org
DGWVI
Well-known member
As someone who's built a few dozen guitars from all kinds of different woods and composites, I don't feel the materials used in the neck and body to offer any substantive contribution to the tone. The anchor points at the nut and bridge will contribute more to the sustain and tone than the woods they're attached to, and even then it's fairly minor compared to pickups and strings used.
As @Pauleo1214 states above, the pickups shouldn't be picking up the acoustic vibrations. Though, most pickups have at least some degree of microphony.
Another thing I see missing from these arguments regarding tonewoods effects on solid electric instruments, is the player. As in, their body composition and things like how tightly they grip the guitar. If the wood itself is effecting the resonance and sustain to such a degree, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone with a beergut would find their guitars lacking sustain? Or those who deathgrip the neck have more sustain? And, shouldn't the guitar sound different between sitting and standing?
As @Pauleo1214 states above, the pickups shouldn't be picking up the acoustic vibrations. Though, most pickups have at least some degree of microphony.
Another thing I see missing from these arguments regarding tonewoods effects on solid electric instruments, is the player. As in, their body composition and things like how tightly they grip the guitar. If the wood itself is effecting the resonance and sustain to such a degree, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone with a beergut would find their guitars lacking sustain? Or those who deathgrip the neck have more sustain? And, shouldn't the guitar sound different between sitting and standing?
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
Confirmation bias is also a hell of thing. One thing I see constantly in videos where people test guitars with different woods is they do so knowingly versus blinding themselves to the choice and trying to guess which is which. When you are aware that there is a difference, your brain will most definitely set you up to perceive that difference.
Dman
New member
I'm going to go out on a limb and admit that I can hear the difference in fretboard material as presented in this excellent video done by Chris Buck:
Two guitars, same everything other than fretboard material.
I was surprised to find I preferred the vocal quality of the rosewood.
Don
Two guitars, same everything other than fretboard material.
I was surprised to find I preferred the vocal quality of the rosewood.
Don
