Voltage regulators

MBFX

Well-known member
I'm back in over my head again! I'm now good at, and very tired of building, boost/drive/fuzz pedals. I bought 4 PT2399s to mess with, and I learned after they arrived that I would need to feed them a steady 5VDC.

I know I can use a voltage regulator IC, but I'm curious why/if I can't simply use a Zener diode to knock the 9VDC from my power supply down to 5VDC for the chip. I'm sure there are good reasons and I would love to learn them!
 
A zener should work fine. Bypass it with a cap though, maybe 100uF or so, to get rid of the noise. Zeners are great white noise generators.
 
The only issue I can see is excessive current wasted.

The series resistor needs to be low enough to not limit current to the PT2399, but high enough to limit the current dumped to ground through the zener diode.
 
Cap right across the Zener. And make sure you correctly size the series resistor before the Zener.
 
Ok, it's definitely more complicated than I first thought!

How do I learn how to calculate the series resistor?
 
PT2399 max current draw is about 40mA. If there was no Zener and you have a 9V supply, you'd have to drop 4V across the series resistor to supply 5V to the PT2399. R=V/I, so R = 4/0.04, or 100 Ohms. I'd go a bit lower, maybe 82 ohms, to have a bit of a margin if the 9V supply dips a bit. Use a 1W zener. If there's 5V across it, assuming the PT2399 draws nothing (say, on powerup), there will be some 50mA going through the Zener alone, so a 250mW part would be undersized and probably burn. The resistor also needs to be at least 0.5W.

Honestly, I'd just use a TO92 78L05 and avoid all this :)
 
I appreciate the explanation - you summed up what I've been trying to understand very succinctly! I will end up buying the 78L05, but I'll try playing with the diode assembly for fun
 
At slightly higher cost, consider the LP2950 regulator instead of the 78Lxx series. The actual dropout voltage is smaller, which makes it a bit more efficient/waste less power. AP7375 also looks good, but I think it's surface mount only.
 
A lower dropout won't make it any more efficient. It will just insure it can still put out the rated voltage when the input voltage is not much above that. Say, 6V at input and you want 5V out. A 7805 will struggle to maintain 5V in this case, but an LDO will be fine.
When you go down from 9V to 5, you still have to drop 4V no matter which regulator you use.
 
Some voltage regulators are lower noise than others. It's one of the parameters to look for in the datasheet if the noise level is important. Zener are easy enough to denoise with a parallel elcap. In any case, if this is about a PT2399 circuit, I won't worry about it. The chip itself has lots of quantization noise to worry about at longer delays, and no amount of power supply filtering makes any difference about that.
 
A lower dropout won't make it any more efficient. It will just insure it can still put out the rated voltage when the input voltage is not much above that. Say, 6V at input and you want 5V out. A 7805 will struggle to maintain 5V in this case, but an LDO will be fine.
When you go down from 9V to 5, you still have to drop 4V no matter which regulator you use.

That's a good point, I totally forgot that you always pay the voltage drop, regardless of regulator.

Where I was coming from with that was the no- or extremely-low load case where the regulator's quiescent current becomes significant. In this specific scenario, the fancier regulator does help if you're trying to save every last milli- or even micro-amp.
 
^ yup, quiescent current can be an issue. I found out the hard way that an LM7805 can easily draw 3mA by itself with no load, which is huge for battery-powered stuff. If you're really trying to save power, you probably want to consider a switching regulator, not linear. But switchers tend to lose their efficiency advantage at very light loads (single-digit mA or less). Also, at low load they might want to drop their switching frequency into the audio range, which will leak into your signal. Low power design can be tricky...
 
Damnit! Why does everything have to be a compromise?

I want a free lunch.


Good info, learnin' lots, keep it comin'.

Like, when would be a good time to use the LP2950 over the LM78L05 ?

Google's AI-bot aggregated:
"The LM78L05 is a fixed 5V, low-power voltage regulator, while the LP2950 is a micropower, adjustable voltage regulator, meaning the LP2950 can be set to different output voltages using external components, while the LM78L05 provides a fixed 5V output."

I can't think of a circumstance I'd need the LP2950, but WTH do I know? 🤷‍♂️
 
I believe the LP2950 also has a lower max current compared to the LM78 regs. In fact, they make LM78 regs in the really big package that are made to be bolted to a heatsink.

Like, when would be a good time to use the LP2950 over the LM78L05 ?

I spec the LP2950 for the relay bypass PCBs I've made, both the microcontroller based design, as well as the CMOS hex inverter based design. In both cases, the goal is to minimize power consumption as much as possible, because unless you're engaging/disengaging the effect, the bypass circuit isn't doing anything except waiting for the footswitch to be activated.

When I programmed the logic on the microcontrollers, I had them go into their lowest power state ("deep sleep" or something like that) when not actually debouncing the switch or (re)setting the relay. The microcontrollers I used could still watch a pin for a voltage change (i.e. footswitch press) in this ultra-low power state. IIRC, this ultra low power state was in the micro amps current draw.

Similarly, the CMOS chips (e.g. 74hc14, cd40106) are ultra-low current, they are also in the micro amps category.

Actually (re)setting the relay will draw 10s of miiliamps, but only for a few dozen milliseconds. The overwhelming majority of the time the circuit is in the "waiting for switch press" state, where we're back down to microamp current draw.

So this is a case where the LP2950 will save significant power versus the LM78. As JTEX said above, even with the business part of the circuit only needing 10s of microamps, the LM78 itself will draw (waste) 3mA, where the LP2950 will be... I can't remember, but significantly less.
 
Awesome info, menny menneh thankages. 🙏🏽
I’ve got some of the large regs as well as the TO92 packages — IIRC, when there’s an “L” in the middle, it’s a TO-92, if it’s just the “L” up front, tis one of the larger heat-sink types:

L78L05​

L7805​

 
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