DEMO XC Phase (MXR Phase 45/90) - Updated w/Matched JFETs

This post contains an audio or video demo

MichaelW

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Build Rating
5.00 star(s)
This is not a complete build but close....:)

I'm waiting on a set of matched 2N5952's coming in this next week and I'll post an update.

But based on some dumb questions and my education on the nuances of JFET matching in this thread, I decided to go ahead and build out the pedal and try some of the JFET's I had on hand.

The build itself went very smoothly, no issues except I had to make a couple of substitutions. I could not find a 250k Trim pot so I subbed a 200k. It seems to be fine as none of the trimming so far has gone above noon on the 200k.

I also did not have any 15uf Tantalums that the BOM called for, so I subbed a pair of electrolytic in parallel (10uf + 4.7uf) so it looks a little wierd.

Last thing I did not have was a 3M9 resistor so I used a pair in series to get close. (I think I wound up at 3.79m or something like that).

I used the new Tayda Red Sand colored enclosure. Wasn't sure I was going to like it but I really do! Cool color and goes well with a cream knob and blue LED.

IMG_3521.JPG

IMG_3522.JPG


I've posted a short sound clip of each set down below. I just recorded a small passage into my looper and swapped the transistors out and tuned the trimmer to the most phasing sound I could get. All the clips were recorded with the rate knob at noon and the Script toggle off (to the left) and the 45/90 toggle set on 45 (also to the left). I also did not touch the gain or input, any differences in volume are strictly from the transistors used.

First clip: Random set of 2N5457 TO-92’s, all out of spec.
(I was getting some distortion with this set that I could not dial out with the trimmer)
VGs Off
-37.0mv
-112.2mv
-57.4mv
-141.4mv

Second clip: Random set of J201 TO-92’s, all out of spec
VGs Off
-43.3mv
-39.6mv
-44.4mv
-129.9mv

Third clip: Random set of MMBFJ201’s mounted on adapters
(These were the loudest)
VGs Off
+145.6mv
+98.9mv
-35.8mv
-180.7mv

Fourth clip: Matched set of MMBF5457’s.
These are matched but not in the ideal range of -1.4v to -3.5v as per @Chuck D. Bones
At the setting with the most phasing I was getting the ticking you can hear.
VGs Off
-1.190 v
-1.294 v
-1.184 v
-1.123 v

Fifth clip: Matched set of MMBF5457 Script Setting
If I dialed the ticking out then I also had less phasing. But I found that that the ticking stopped if I switched to the Script setting on the toggle (to the right). So this last clip is the same set of “matched-but-out-of-range” MMBF5457’s as the last clip but with the Script setting. Everything else is the same.
 
1st thing: mmbf201 i think was the best overall.
2nd thing: your a bad dude on guitar!
3rd thing: really really digging the demo and hearing the different sounds with different transistors in there def lets me know which route to take without having to go crazy looking for it!
4th thing: that color is amazing and now i want one ;/
5th thing: AMAZING PEDAL INSIDE AND OUT AS ALWAYS!
 
1st thing: mmbf201 i think was the best overall.
2nd thing: your a bad dude on guitar!
3rd thing: really really digging the demo and hearing the different sounds with different transistors in there def lets me know which route to take without having to go crazy looking for it!
4th thing: that color is amazing and now i want one ;/
5th thing: AMAZING PEDAL INSIDE AND OUT AS ALWAYS!
I'm looking forward to getting the "right" set, matched 2N5292 from GuitarPCB. I have about 50 MMBF5457's that I could probably find a matched set if I went through all of them, but I'd need the adapter for that kind of testing volume. Also, not sure I'd want to open up all those SMD's from the tape reel. I took out 10 to test, I can only find 9 now.....somewhere on my garage floor is an MMBF5457......sigh.....
 
Watch it pop out of now where but even being that small im so sure :(....On another note though def excited to see which ones you ultimately decide on!
 
I drop an SMD part I dig out this ancient speaker the voice coil blew out in years back, as long as it's not an IC, I usually find the bit stuck via the leads..
solid as always Mike
 
Fantastic comparison. I look forward to the matched set clip and your takeaway.
Hey @fig I was looking at your build of the XC (this related threads feature is cool:))

What did you use for the trimmer? Looks like there's a resistor under there?

Edit: I was actually thinking if the 200k didn't work, to use a 500k with a parallel resistor. Or.......since there's enough room in the enclosure, using a B250k 16mm pot.

fig_xc.jpg
 
@MichaelW

Great bud first and foremost!

I have an XC Phase but just found a trace for the Joyo Vintage Phase, which I already own, and I’m going to put the XC Phase board up on my barter thread.
 
@MichaelW

Great bud first and foremost!

I have an XC Phase but just found a trace for the Joyo Vintage Phase, which I already own, and I’m going to put the XC Phase board up on my barter thread.
What's the Joyo based on? The MXR?

So a little history I left out. When I was in high school I had an MXR Phase 90 Script as well as an MXR Distortion +.
They saw a lot of use in the last high school band I was in. So I have both of these in my queue mostly for the sake of nostalgia.
That little clip I used for the comparison demo was a tune we played in that band by a band called Sea Level called "Grand Larceny".
(Sea Level was 3/4 of the Allman Brothers band, lead by Chuck Leavell that was a mix of jam band, southern rock and jazz fusion.)

I had my birthday a couple weeks ago and one of the guys in the band posted a pic on Facebook of us at one of our gigs.

71852561_10156870662743403_8194514888840708096_n.jpg
 
What's the Joyo based on? The MXR?

So a little history I left out. When I was in high school I had an MXR Phase 90 Script as well as an MXR Distortion +.
They saw a lot of use in the last high school band I was in. So I have both of these in my queue mostly for the sake of nostalgia.
That little clip I used for the comparison demo was a tune we played in that band by a band called Sea Level called "Grand Larceny".
(Sea Level was 3/4 of the Allman Brothers band, lead by Chuck Leavell that was a mix of jam band, southern rock and jazz fusion.)

I had my birthday a couple weeks ago and one of the guys in the band posted a pic on Facebook of us at one of our gigs.

View attachment 32516

It’s VERY close to the MXR with a few component changes that make it a bit more subtle.

It’s through hole so I’m going to work on matching some of the JFETs I have here and tweaking the feedback on a switch.
 
Hey @fig I was looking at your build of the XC (this related threads feature is cool:))

What did you use for the trimmer? Looks like there's a resistor under there?

Edit: I was actually thinking if the 200k didn't work, to use a 500k with a parallel resistor. Or.......since there's enough room in the enclosure, using a B250k 16mm pot.

View attachment 32515
A 500kΩ trimmer and a 499kΩ resistor. ;) I think I have some 250kΩ now…I’ll look around.
 
Thanks for the clips! I didn't realize the phase II could do that subtle of a setting, definitely makes me much more interested in it. I'm surprised how good, and how off some of the random sets sounded.
 
Thanks for the clips! I didn't realize the phase II could do that subtle of a setting, definitely makes me much more interested in it. I'm surprised how good, and how off some of the random sets sounded.
Yah you can dial it back but it's still got a harder "edge" to the filtering. It's more noticeable when you run a drive into the Phase II. Compared to the XC which has a softer edge. But if you run the Phase II first then into overdrive it's mitigated. Bottom line, you need to build both:)
 
Update:
I received my matched set of 2N5952's from Guitarpcb.com.

Here are the VGs Off numbers:
-2.03v
-2.076v
-2.111v
-2.119v

They should be right in there as for the specs.
Results are a little disappointing.

First of all, I can hear a tiny bit of overall distortion, much like the random set of 2N5457's in the first clip above. I had to back off the gain a bit on my "always on" compressor.

Secondly, adjusting the trimmer to the most pronounced phasing effect I'm getting the same "ticking" as I did with the "Matched but not ideal VGs numbers" set of MMBF5457's when the toggle is in the "BLOCK" setting (to the left).

However, like the MMBF5457's, if I toggle it to the "Script" setting the ticking stops.
If I adjust the ticking out then I don't get as strong phasing.

Also, I'm not hearing any better or more phasing with the matched set of 2N5952's than I did with the MMBF5457's.
Same ticking behavior in Block mode, same amount of phasing in Script mode. I dunno, you be the judge. I lost my loop when I unplugged it so had to record a new loop. I "think" all the settings are the same.

Matched set 2N5952 Toggle in "BLOCK" setting (left)

Matched set 2N5952 Toggle in Script setting (right)

In terms of usage, I'm ok with this as I like the Script setting better anyway and that's where I'd be using it.
But it's still curious as to what's causing the ticking.
 
Ok another update.

After the above post, I went to my bench, snipped off the legs of the new JFETs to a more manageable length, re-inserted them, put the screws in the back cover. Bang, the ticking is gone. I have a fully functional XC Phase in all toggle positions.

So what the ever?? :unsure:
 
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