YARs: what’s the Rat for a Musophobe?

Bricksnbeatles

Bricksnbeatles

Member known well
There are a ton of rat derived circuits. I’ve never been a fan of rats. The only context I’ve ever liked it in is my Idiotbox No Moon, which puts a rat in parallel with a muff and a TS, but even then I only like the rat when it’s in parallel with *both* of the other effects— in parallel with just the TS or just the Muff is still to rat-like for me.
Some people say that it can be a fuzz if you set it right, but I think those people are liars. Out of all of the YAR boards out there, which is the one to convert an unabashed Rat avoider? I’m on a quest to find one I like.

Bonus points for 4+ knobs/switches
 
music6000 said:

Dirty Rat - Dingo Distortion

This is the Dingo Distortion, which is a clone of the VFE Alpha Dog. What is it? It's a very tweakable Rat. Think of this as a Rat with some balls and different texture options. There are 6 controls on this circuit, 3 of which are standard Rat controls (Volume, Gain, and Filter/Tone). I won't...
forum.pedalpcb.com forum.pedalpcb.com
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That’s the build that inspired this thread— it seems like a pretty unique take on the rat, so I wanted to see what the consensus is on more versatile or less rat-like rats
 
If we expand the RAT search a bit (see what I did there?) into mki wave cannon or Katzenkoenig territory, you might find something more palatable. I breadboarded a Katzenkoenig a while back … it was pretty rude in a good way. I built a cannon fodder and love it. Havoc mode is almost more fun than I can handle, especially in conjunction with some delays and other beep boops going on.

Edit: I should add that I love my stock bom-build Muroidea.
 
Bricksnbeatles said:
There are a ton of rat derived circuits. I’ve never been a fan of rats. The only context I’ve ever liked it in is my Idiotbox No Moon, which puts a rat in parallel with a muff and a TS, but even then I only like the rat when it’s in parallel with *both* of the other effects— in parallel with just the TS or just the Muff is still to rat-like for me.
Some people say that it can be a fuzz if you set it right, but I think those people are liars. Out of all of the YAR boards out there, which is the one to convert an unabashed Rat avoider? I’m on a quest to find one I like.

Bonus points for 4+ knobs/switches
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What is it about the Rat that doesn't jive with you?

The Alpha Dog / Dingo is my favorite expanded Rat, with the Expandora next on the list, so I'd recommend those.

The Wave Cannon mkI is cool, and it has a Ruetz type deal built into it

While not strictly a Rat, the Cattle Driver is basically a modded take with soft clippers and two band EQ

And, the BB Gun also seems very Rat-inspired, but also has soft clippers

steviejr92 said:
Agree. That mod fattens the bottom end. Really useful when you crank the Gain up and it starts to thin out.
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The mod is awesome, but it work the other way- the Rat gets thinner with less Distortion. With higher gain and bass it can start to duck out and gets even fuzzier, especially on the Expandora circuits
 
I also don't really care for the Rat in stock form. I have built it with various mods which improve it for my taste - I like the bass pot mod - and really like the Expandora with a bass pot, especially in the "forbidden" mode.

But it is such a one dimensional sound to my ears. There's nothing inherently wrong with it but nothing particularly exciting to me about it either. It's a very simple tone. No weirdness, no unusual character, no complexity. It's a solid sound but kinda bland too. Generic. There's nothing bad about it except that it's a bit bass-lite and maybe that's the problem! No glorious sludge like a Muff, no complex growl like a Strawberry Red.
 
I own a keeley modded rat and jhs modded rat and they sound almost identical. I built the Helios by Aion and it also sounded almost identical to the other two. I think only the jhs would stand out in a blind shootout because it has a little more volume. So maybe stay away from those. I love them but definitely not a rat for a person who hates rats. But I agree with Laundryroom David, the katzenkonig is an excellent rat derivative. It still has rat characteristics but it also has tonebender nastiness. Only the JHS modded rat and the katzenkonig are on my pedalboard and almost always go to the katzenkonig. I recently built the parenthesis mini and that is a rat derivative with octave and boost and extra clipping options. It could be my new favorite of all of them. Also Sushi Box FX has the Lab Rat coming out as a DIY pcb at some point in the not so distant future. Rat with a tube, 4 knobs and a toggle
 
If you don’t like the Rat, I don’t think there’s going to be Rat-derived circuit you’ll like. The Alpha Dog is still a Rat—just with VFE tweakability. (Although the single Ge diode clipping can coax an octave overtone.) With a circuit that simple, slight changes can be pretty substantial. There’s no shortage of circuits following that general topology. Straying too far away from core elements really makes it something else entirely.

That being said, I really like the Rat. I think it’s best paired with other circuits (octave fuzz or mid-forward OD) or going into a slightly distorted amp. Going into something clean at low volumes is very lifeless. Though asymmetric clipping can add some nuance that makes it less fatiguing.

Low end can quickly oversaturate the op amp, leading to some dropout and blown out artifacts. I think that’s a pretty interesting texture. Many of the ‘modern’ takes on the Rat seem to try to remove that aspect.
 
Harry Klippton said:
They're not liars, they just don't actually like fuzz
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Truth
ICTRock said:
expandora ... the refined rat.
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I always forget about trying an expandora. Partially, I think, because the Billy Gibbons association subliminally turns me off to it. Nothing against him or his tone, but mentally it just shoehorns the circuit into a certain niche that I’m not into, even though that’s probably not a good representation of it as a whole.
Laundryroom David said:
If we expand the RAT search a bit (see what I did there?) into mki wave cannon or Katzenkoenig territory, you might find something more palatable. I breadboarded a Katzenkoenig a while back … it was pretty rude in a good way. I built a cannon fodder and love it. Havoc mode is almost more fun than I can handle, especially in conjunction with some delays and other beep boops going on.

Edit: I should add that I love my stock bom-build Muroidea.
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The katzenkoenig sounds interesting since I’m always a Tonebender lover. Don’t know much about the wave cannon but I’ll give it a look.
Cvoxdog said:
Make sure to add chuck's contour (bass) pot if you build the expandora. Makes it way better.
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Noted!
DGWVI said:
What is it about the Rat that doesn't jive with you?
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At its simplest I’d say that it just sounds generic to me. Like, you know how rock music about rock music is almost always really corny and bad?— we built this city on rock and roll; rock and roll all night; for those about to rock; rock of ages; r.o.c.k. In the USA? It has that same corny vibe but I can’t put my finger on it.
It’s not that I don’t like op amp clipping, because I like plenty of other circuits that operate on the same principle, but something about it sounds plain and lacking in character. I also think the filter control is a bit of a lazy tone control rather than genius simplicity. I know the filter is a big part of the rat’s identity but I think a different or improved tonestack would go a long way to making me like it more.

Low end can quickly oversaturate the op amp, leading to some dropout and blown out artifacts. I think that’s a pretty interesting texture. Many of the ‘modern’ takes on the Rat seem to try to remove that aspect.
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You had me at interesting texture… dropout and artifacts sound fun,
 
I like how my build report spawned this discussion. It's nice knowing that people actually read some of these posts instead of just scrolling to the pictures and then hitting like. I also question if people actually "like" something when they hit like....

That being said, I don't really like a Rat in a standalone situation into a clean amp. I mean, it has it's unique sound and does it's thing well, but it really needs something else to make it shine. Does it do fuzz? IMHO, not really but I can see how people think that. Put a non-transparent OD in front of it (my favorite is a TS) or run the pedal into a dirty amp to make it come alive. I feel the same way with a Dist 250: by itself it's just boring. Pedals are nothing more than a basic building block for sound shaping and IMO synergy definitely plays a part here.

Edit: Some people just don't like certain pedals and that's ok. A lot of you are obsessed with BMP type circuits and I'm over here in the corner just like "eh...". I get it, but I don't get it. A rat may just not be for you and the sound you are looking for. If you're into chugga chuggas, then a creamy, wooly fuzz or a light OD may not be your cup of tea.
 
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BuddytheReow said:
I like how my build report spawned this discussion. It's nice knowing that people actually read some of these posts instead of just scrolling to the pictures and then hitting like. I also question if people actually "like" something when they hit like....

That being said, I don't really like a Rat in a standalone situation into a clean amp. I mean, it has it's unique sound and does it's thing well, but it really needs something else to make it shine. Does it do fuzz? IMHO, not really but I can see how people think that. Put a non-transparent OD in front of it (my favorite is a TS) or run the pedal into a dirty amp to make it come alive. I feel the same way with a Dist 250: by itself it's just boring. Pedals are nothing more than a basic building block for sound shaping and IMO synergy definitely plays a part here.
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Like

Like, actually. 👍
 
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