jesuscrisp
Well-known member
Exactly what was the last time Josh did something really different that is not directly "based off" of something?
Are boutique pedals over?
- Thread starter giovanni
- Start date
fig
Village Idiot
Business sense says It would otherwise be counter-intuitive If that is how he earns his living.
giovanni
Well-known member
Oh I’m not claiming he has and I also wouldn’t buy most of his stuff! I’m just saying he’s running a business. I do like the Morning Glory actually
szukalski
Well-known member
They were low cost already with through-hole, and I doubt that off-shoring assembly of through-hole hits the margin much. I do agree with the your statement about a silicon FF being sold for $$$, but then they are selling a product and customer experience. If the customer is happy then..
This hits the nail on the head. You want the sounds you have heard on the records you love. That's the market. It's why Fender and Gibson have product lines from the 50s still in production..
SillyOctpuss
Well-known member
When was the last time there was a new guitar related product which was a success and sold in large numbers? Seriously. Guitar enthusiasts spend more time reading about, talking about and hunting for guitars than ever play them.
We all want stuff that's based off something. Anytime gibson, Fender or any other company try anything that's actually new they get laughed at, hammered online and the product doesn't sell. So there's zero incentive to make anything new. Apart from niche use case customers most of us want something based off the old great records.
Pedal companies are the same whether it's a small company like JHS or a monster like Boss and Line 6. They make products they know will sell and are sure will see a ROI.
At least JHS usually offer an improvement over the original circuit they are referencing. For example 9 TS in one package sounds good to me (Although I don't ever use a TS!) and the Morning Glory is a good, improved BB. In comparison all the Youtube guitar guys LOVE Mythos FX who makes barely any changes to the pedals he clones.
I've been looking at Fender lately - it's hard not to because all of my local guitar stores are jam packed with Fender product. To be honest the closer their current range gets to the original spec the better they look. They are producing some ugly guitars right now. I wish guitar manufacturers would try to come up with a new shape which was just as perfect as a Les Paul, Strat or 335. Whenever someone tries to mimic those shapes but change them a bit it almost invariably just looks ugly or wrong or both. There are a few exceptions, but even this one is from around 1977! I think it's beautiful. Are there any more recent guitars which are beautiful? Mostly they are cool but quirky. (I used to have an Aria much like this and gigged it for a while. It sounded great!)
I've been looking at Fender lately - it's hard not to because all of my local guitar stores are jam packed with Fender product. To be honest the closer their current range gets to the original spec the better they look. They are producing some ugly guitars right now. I wish guitar manufacturers would try to come up with a new shape which was just as perfect as a Les Paul, Strat or 335. Whenever someone tries to mimic those shapes but change them a bit it almost invariably just looks ugly or wrong or both. There are a few exceptions, but even this one is from around 1977! I think it's beautiful. Are there any more recent guitars which are beautiful? Mostly they are cool but quirky. (I used to have an Aria much like this and gigged it for a while. It sounded great!)
Coda
Well-known member
This response is pretty illuminating. Guitar players are old fashioned/conservative. They like “the old stuff,” and don’t trust anything new…until it has proven itself over time. Guitar and pedal technology is over 50 years old, for the most part. If a builder builds a new circuit, no one like it cause the Classic is better…until enough time has gone by, and the effect becomes part of the collective Guitar paradigm, after which is is excepted.
So guitarists don’t like new designs. But they also love to complain about unoriginality…which is funny coming from people who’s gear is, for the most part, an attempt to copy someone else’s rig…
jimilee
Well-known member
Schector has some nice looking stuff. I’m not a fan, but they look nice.
PapaBear
Well-known member
When did anybody for that matter, most pedals today are based off something in the past
PapaBear
Well-known member
I really don't understand why the guitar manufactures don't just build the old designs and focus on doing them well, instead of putting lipstick on a pig and sending it out as the latest and greatest
SillyOctpuss
Well-known member
They're all lifestyle brands now. The recent figures from Fender were quite interesting. The only categories showing growth for Fender now are squier and uber expensive customshop. That's probably why most of the cool interesting stuff I see now are squiers... Which will inevitably have a skinny neck
There's very little in the middle which I ever look at now. They may as well not exist. This is why my last two guitars were partscasters put together by Feline guitars in London. I couldn't get anything close to the spec I wanted without paying insane custom shop money
Coda
Well-known member
Ding ding… we have a winner. This is it exactly. No one wants an OD that no one has ever heard of or seen…but a vintage Blues Breaker on a board, that’ll make me look real cool…
Most pedals are sold on image. It’s all about looking like you have what you should have. Play a Squier really well? Doesn’t matter. Play a $25,000 custom shop LP really shittily?…at least you look good doing it…
Everybody needs a Klon. Why? It’s kind a shit pedal…for me, anyway. Why can’t I play Randy Rhodes solos on my Jazzmaster? How come I need a $5000 rig when I just play for fun in my house? (Because you do…)
It’s like all these old men I see when I got to the dump each week; they all have their big, brand new trucks. Why? They can hardly climb up into them, and the only trash they have is a single shopping bag full. You don’t need a truck for that…but you NEED a truck…
I think Reverend guitars are ugly as sin, but I respect their originality. For a long time the only real Fender I ever played was a Japanese strat a fried of mine had (LPB with a p90 in the bridge). I didn’t know it was Japanese. I loved the neck. I’d never played a guitar that fit my hand so well. Turns out, it was the neck. So when I got my CV JM, I was very happy with the neck…
This post is starting to feel line an @FeralFeline post…
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benny_profane
Well-known member
If you can shred and bend with a 7.25" radius, I'm very impressed.
Coda
Well-known member
I'm working on it. I'm trying to figure out the solo to Over the Mountain. I got all the right notes, its just the speed I'm struggling with. I' m a little more laid back, I suppose...
Coda
Well-known member
Speaking of Big Monk-designed Fuzz Faces...
Coda
Well-known member
Talk about boutique pedals...
Coda
Well-known member
It exists only in your mind The rarest pedal of all...
Coda
Well-known member
And sell for thousands on Reverb...a true boutique pedal...
benny_profane
Well-known member
In re guitars: I don't know if it's necessarily being conservative, or if it's that 50+ years of refinement of proven designs. I think the argument can be made for body shapes, particularly when it comes to design flourishes that are more aesthetic than ergonomic. But when it comes to established technical aspects, what is the value-add of changing something just to change it? For a guitar to be comfortable and playable, there are design constraints dictated by how the instrument is played and human anatomy (something I don't think BC Rich ever cared about). Also, 'classic brands' such as Fender and Gibson have established body designs that are synonymous with their brand. When they alter those substantially, is it still a Strat?
What should Fender do? They are issuing modified versions of classic designs in many different ways, but consumers don't care for them. Is there a market for a hardtail Jazzmaster with humbuckers? If they change the body shape substantially, can it still be called a JM? What are the defining characteristics of the model? So they've introduced new models. And they don't sell particularly well.
The role of other brands would be then to innovate or make something new. But, there, they have to sell on the market. PRS makes a LP with design modifications. ESPs are modified Gibsons, essentially. Even the St. Vincent Music Man is essentially an Explorer. Every guitar with two rounded horns is considered a modified Strat.
When Gibson started making robot guitars, there was a substantial backlash. I don't think that was guitarists being purists or conservative—it's that the 'improvements' weren't actually improvements and were just gimmicks added because they could be, regardless of utility. I'd rather see improvements to a neck heel than automated tuners.
What could be introduced into the market that would make it so that consumers weren't considered conservative?
Ultimately, the issue with pedals, guitars, and amps is that there is an information disconnect. Most consumers are rather low-information and are mostly educated by ad copy and anecdotal appraisals. I think that's why this group finds many market trends to be baffling. The novelty of a clipping switch seems to be waning, but that is still a major selling point for many 'boutique' pedals. For us, it's an extremely low-effort modification; for many consumers, it represents 'customization.'
What should Fender do? They are issuing modified versions of classic designs in many different ways, but consumers don't care for them. Is there a market for a hardtail Jazzmaster with humbuckers? If they change the body shape substantially, can it still be called a JM? What are the defining characteristics of the model? So they've introduced new models. And they don't sell particularly well.
The role of other brands would be then to innovate or make something new. But, there, they have to sell on the market. PRS makes a LP with design modifications. ESPs are modified Gibsons, essentially. Even the St. Vincent Music Man is essentially an Explorer. Every guitar with two rounded horns is considered a modified Strat.
When Gibson started making robot guitars, there was a substantial backlash. I don't think that was guitarists being purists or conservative—it's that the 'improvements' weren't actually improvements and were just gimmicks added because they could be, regardless of utility. I'd rather see improvements to a neck heel than automated tuners.
What could be introduced into the market that would make it so that consumers weren't considered conservative?
Ultimately, the issue with pedals, guitars, and amps is that there is an information disconnect. Most consumers are rather low-information and are mostly educated by ad copy and anecdotal appraisals. I think that's why this group finds many market trends to be baffling. The novelty of a clipping switch seems to be waning, but that is still a major selling point for many 'boutique' pedals. For us, it's an extremely low-effort modification; for many consumers, it represents 'customization.'
