Educate me on gain pedal stacking?

I

iamjackslackof

Well-known member
Hi all,

I'm curious about stacking gain pedals. I understand the concept obviously, but I'm curious about the level of gain people are looking to achieve with it. For context, my kind of music gets no heavier than Black Sabbath, and not the 80s Dio Sabbath. If it can reasonably be called metal, or has screaming, it's not what I play/enjoy (and no hate if you do, I just know what I like).

Is gain stacking worth it for someone who's shooting for classic rock/blues rock types of tones? Is this what people are targeting with gain stacking? I've built lots of pedals, but I'm still a noob at pedal boards, pedal chains, effect order, all that kind of stuff. I have a bad habit of building a pedal, making sure it works in isolation, and then off to the next build :) So I want to spend more time really exploring my full chain, and possibly reducing the massive number of unused pedals mocking me and inviting scorn from my significant other...

Thanks!
 
I think you could benefit from stacking a lower gain drive into a medium to high gain dirt pedal. Tube Screamer into Rat is a classic combo for that type of thing. Personally, I use two Rats- one set for lower gain, and the other for fullbore, and a Muff for the heavies

What are some of your favored dirt pedals?
 
iamjackslackof said:
the level of gain people are looking to achieve with it
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I am not sure stacking gain pedals is always about gain itself.

Tom Morello and many other players have demonstrated that you can raise the gain just with any volume circuit, like a flat GE-7 into an amplifier head. You don't really need an overdrive circuit to get more gain. Any volume boost will do fine.

It's more about tone shaping, for exemple engaging a Tube Screamer before an other gain effect will boost the mids.

Catalinbread "foundation" pedals are a good exemple of tone shaping by stacking gain pedals.

I think the rule is that the last effect will be the most prominent in terms of colours, acting more or less like a preamp, in the signal chain. By colours I mean the sound's character, its singularities, etc.

I like to try many gain effects combinations in order to play with the colour of each effect, mixing one into another, connecting and mixing them in parallel, etc...
This kind of tool is perfect for that : www.musikding.de/Pro-Cessor-kit

Much like a painter, exploring and mixing with various colors ?
 
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That Pedal Show has many videos specifically about stacking, and they are not high gain players.

If you're looking for examples that might be a place to start. If you're not into TPS (and not everyone is), you'll probably find equivalent videos from sources you do like.
 
Stacking is great for low to medium gain. I love a Timmy/HoneyBee combo.

I have been having a lot of fun lately trying to emulate amps with stacking.
Cranked mid gain > clean boost > low mid gain overdrive. Really making some great tones.
 
iamjackslackof said:
I have a bad habit of building a pedal, making sure it works in isolation, and then off to the next build
Click to expand...
I was kindly warned by the friends who taught me how to build stompboxes :

"if you start diy, building your own stompboxes, your interest will shift from playing music to electronics, the physics of sound and sound engineering. That's how it works, now you've been warned, set the iron on 400°C, and start soldering this phaser..."

I laughed innocently at the time, now I can see what they meant... It's like being addicted to a powerful drug, and meet the next level product : there aren't any chances for you to escape it. You have nowhere to run... it was probably all settled before you were even born : "Nothing Escapes the Reign of Cause and Consequence".

...But we are here for you, comrade. I wonder what's the next level ?
 
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eh là bas ma said:
if you start diy, building your own stompboxes, your interest will shift from playing music to electronics, the physics of sound and sound engineering.
Click to expand...
This is so true! I've been reading all about recording and sound engineering and EE stuff and psychoacoustics and so much other stuff rather than actually play my guitar lol.
 
I hope that the next level is the point when we've digested all the informations, with a better understanding and better control of what's happening when we play.

And from that point, I hope we start playing again, on a whole new level that we have never seen coming. It is slow, but it is happening, at least I hope, based on my own observations.
 
eh là bas ma said:
I am not sure stacking gain pedals is always about gain itself.

Tom Morello and many other players have demonstrated that you can raise the gain just with any volume circuit, like a flat GE-7 into an amplifier head. You don't really need an overdrive circuit to get more gain. Any volume boost will do fine.

It's more about tone shaping, for exemple engaging a Tube Screamer before an other gain effect will boost the mids.

Catalinbread "foundation" pedals are a good exemple of tone shaping by stacking gain pedals.

I think the rule is that the last effect will be the most prominent in terms of colours, acting more or less like a preamp, in the signal chain. By colours I mean the sound's character, its singularities, etc.

I like to try many gain effects combinations in order to play with the colour of each effect, mixing one into another, connecting and mixing them in parallel, etc...
This kind of tool is perfect for that : www.musikding.de/Pro-Cessor-kit

Much like a painter, exploring and mixing with various colors ?
Click to expand...

Very good point, and why I stick two Rats into the front end of a Big Muff. The Rats don't have that earth shaking low end, but the Opamp Muff has tons. And, boosting the mids prior to clipping, while the bass and treble get boosted afterward is how a lot of metal-oriented pedals are set up, topologically
 
I use a CB Foundation circuit as the last pedal in my chain. It is not a clean tone, and could be described by some as overdriven, though not crunchy. Into that I have my Wah, a filter pedal, a Klon, a ds-1, and a BMP, followed by modulation, echo, and my foundation…

Kicking the Klon on with the Foundation OD gives a nice kick. I play the Klon with the gain cranked. This gives me an OD/distortion. I can also kick the BMP on into the Foundation, which sounds excellent. If I want that one more, that little mush over the cliff” I kick the DS-1 on, which makes the BMP angry…

Somethings don’t work, though. Klon into DS-1 is hot poop. Klon into BMP isn’t too bad, but the DS-1 does it nicer. The DS-1 into the Foundation is usable, but below unity, due to how you have to set it as a boost for the BMP…
 
Coda said:
I use a CB Foundation circuit as the last pedal in my chain. It is not a clean tone, and could be described by some as overdriven, though not crunchy. Into that I have my Wah, a filter pedal, a Klon, a ds-1, and a BMP, followed by modulation, echo, and my foundation…

Kicking the Klon on with the Foundation OD gives a nice kick. I play the Klon with the gain cranked. This gives me an OD/distortion. I can also kick the BMP on into the Foundation, which sounds excellent. If I want that one more, that little mush over the cliff” I kick the DS-1 on, which makes the BMP angry…

Somethings don’t work, though. Klon into DS-1 is hot poop. Klon into BMP isn’t too bad, but the DS-1 does it nicer. The DS-1 into the Foundation is usable, but below unity, due to how you have to set it as a boost for the BMP…
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I had a DS-1 I cut the clipping diodes out of and used as a not so clean boost!
 
Coda said:
I use a CB Foundation circuit as the last pedal in my chain. It is not a clean tone, and could be described by some as overdriven, though not crunchy. Into that I have my Wah, a filter pedal, a Klon, a ds-1, and a BMP, followed by modulation, echo, and my foundation…

Kicking the Klon on with the Foundation OD gives a nice kick. I play the Klon with the gain cranked. This gives me an OD/distortion. I can also kick the BMP on into the Foundation, which sounds excellent. If I want that one more, that little mush over the cliff” I kick the DS-1 on, which makes the BMP angry…

Somethings don’t work, though. Klon into DS-1 is hot poop. Klon into BMP isn’t too bad, but the DS-1 does it nicer. The DS-1 into the Foundation is usable, but below unity, due to how you have to set it as a boost for the BMP…
Click to expand...

A Klon after a ds1 might work better. If there's enough headroom in the amp it would give a volume boost and a mid push for solos.
 
DGWVI said:
Very good point, and why I stick two Rats into the front end of a Big Muff. The Rats don't have that earth shaking low end, but the Opamp Muff has tons. And, boosting the mids prior to clipping, while the bass and treble get boosted afterward is how a lot of metal-oriented pedals are set up, topologically
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I second this. The Distortion Plus in front of the Opamp Muff creates a huge wall of fuzz with lots of bottom end.
 
Pauleo1214 said:
I second this. The Distortion Plus in front of the Opamp Muff creates a huge wall of fuzz with lots of bottom end.
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And the mids and highs from the D+ (or the Rat) fill out the scoop of the Muff. In my setup, when I have the Muff engaged and kick in one of the Rats, it almost seems like a level boost because of all the frequencies suddenly showing up
 
IIRC, I read somewhere Cilly Borgon's dreamer thingy-toner was from a Dist-II into the BMPOA.
I've got a dual-pedal planned based on this concept. Not 'cause I'm a fan of his, I just like stacking combos and resultant tone.
 
This is where pedals like the Colorsound Overdriver or Hudson Broadcast come into their own. By themselves the dirt can be quite harsh but when used to push other mild dirt pedals - or overdriven amps/amp channels - the harshness disappears and the mids and character of them adds to the second-in-line dirt. A Broadcast can be seen as a Treble Booster in this way. Treble Boosters are not really boosting the extreme high frequencies, they're more about that honky midrange which helps a guitar cut through. The Broadcast is a very sophisticated sounding Treble Booster which can become a full-range boost with use of the Bass cut knob. The Colorsound OD adds lovely mids too.

My favourite Timbre Man OD can sound great when used as a low-gain OD goosed by a clean Mystery Meat pedal. Used clean the Mystery Meat does that Klon thing but with the possibility of extra low-end thump if you want it. Using it as a cleanish boost into the Timbre man gives you the luscious mids of the Mystery Meat with the tighter, crisper lows of the Timbre Man. Win-win.
 
Among every gain circuits, I guess there are more boost oriented circuits, designed to push an amp already dirty, than amp-emulation circuits, able to act as some kind of preamp.

Maybe all of them are effective when connected in first position, like DS1, BD-2, any TS variant, ZenDrive, etc. However, I found only a few OD/Distortion circuits that are really easy and pleasing to use in last position. For exemple: Big Muffs, Tweed Man, Derailer, Mesa Dr. from pcbguitarmania, and recently ROG Azabache.

Isn't it easier to find the first circuit than the last one ?

Stacking gain circuits in series is one thing, but a whole new world opens up when we start blending several gain effects in parallel : with a Blend control on an effect looper, for exemple. A bit sophisticated, but very efficient, and full of good surprises.
 
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