Dark Rift Delay 1uF caps - ceramic?
- Thread starter lcipher3
- Start date
Right... why? Coming from HiFi you would never do this.... is it just packaging, cost or ???
Mcknib
Well-known member
The silkscreen looks like a box film cap but 1uf film are pretty big with guitar effects you don't really need HiFi quality and MLCC are nice and small and fit the bill for the job
With guitar effects you'll find film are preferable in the audio path because they tend to have lower noise, distortion and last longer than electrolytic caps
Albeit as you know any cap of the correct voltage and value can be used and value required and availability is another consideration
Chas Grant
Well-known member
A 1uF 50V box film cap will fit in the footprint. WIMA makes one, although its a little pricey. If its in the signal path and a small footprint I use them. Here's the WIMA part number MKS2B041001C00MF00 . I know Mouser carries them, if you use a different large distributor, they should have them also.
Thanks - yeah i have a few of those - they're 3.5mm wide vs the pcb footprint 2.5mm so it's a tight fit and there are two smooshed between some others that I would have to get creative with. Maybe one on the other side of the board.
just wondering what the diff would be between MLCC and film - they ARE in the signal path. Does ceramic "sound" different and would you be able to tell? Or would it be quieter?
Not sure what parameters "matter" aside from capacitance, but: (measured with a cheapo meter tester)
MLCC: Vloss = 0.2%, ESR=12 ohms, 1.020 uF
Kemet box Film (larger): Vloss = 0%, ESR = 6.8 ohms, 1.061 uF
Wima box Film (3.5mm): Vloss = 0.0%, ESR=8.1 ohms, 1.109 uF
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Chas Grant
Well-known member
The only one that truly "matters" is capacitance. A 1uF capacitor is a 1uF capacitor as far as the circuit is concerned. There are a few reasons to use the different types of caps. The box film have the least electrical noise associated with them, that's why you try to use them in the signal path. If it calls for a cap larger than 1uF, that's where you start seeing the electrolytic caps come in, this is more due to the physical size of the caps above 1uF. You may see up to a 3.3 uF box film cap called for but this is rare. Once you go below the nF range into the pF range, these are normally ceramic caps. Most DIYer's use MLCC caps in this range. MLCC are ceramic, just a higher quality than the normal looking ceramic caps you see in mass produced circuits. The reason the mass produced circuits use the normal looking ceramic caps so much, is purely cost. They are very cheap when you buy them by the boatload!
Thought I should also mention tantalum caps, you can use these in place of an electrolytic cap if its in the signal chain. They are polarity sensitive so make sure you check them, and they have less electrical noise associated with them.
Thought I should also mention tantalum caps, you can use these in place of an electrolytic cap if its in the signal chain. They are polarity sensitive so make sure you check them, and they have less electrical noise associated with them.
So it's not just capacitance - it's electrical noise. So again - probably overthinking this - MLCC or film? If there is "less noise" in film why not (aside from cost and size) use them? And so what have a "too small" footprint?
Or is MLCC vs film "electrical noise" not much of an issue in guitar effects (or this particular one) even if it is (as this is) in the signal path?
It seems like this was setup for MLCC and I'm wondering why or if it matters if I would gain anything by cramming in the film ones or mounting to the "back" of the board.
Robert
Reverse Engineer
The parts list spec's MLCC because of size, no other reason. If you have a 1uF film that will fit (or can make it fit) feel free.
With that said, a large percentage of the pedals I see these days have ceramic SMD caps all over the signal path. I'm not talking Joyo and Biyang... This is in highly regarded pedals by big name builders.
With that said, a large percentage of the pedals I see these days have ceramic SMD caps all over the signal path. I'm not talking Joyo and Biyang... This is in highly regarded pedals by big name builders.
Thanks - I'm just going to use the MLCC. Especially since this is not exactly a "hifi" type of pedal like a compressor or super clean boost or anything.
My thoughts exactly
Dali
Well-known member
Barry
Well-known member
My name shouldn't be in the company of those real guru's
Mcknib
Well-known member
I joined this forum a while ago but hadn't been active on it
You very quickly suss who's knowledgeable and helpful and you're in amongst it I'm afraid Barry
So yer just gonna have to accept your status, get the t shirt and wear it with pride my man
The guru thug life can sometimes be hard I've heard
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Barry
Well-known member
I may get lucky at spotting an assembly issue or bad solder joints, but I have no where near the understanding of how all this stuff works as guys like you and Chuck and many more here, I'm an A/C voltage guy so I can read schematics and DC took some getting used to, but audio paths are still a work in progress for me
Mcknib
Well-known member
You share your experience and knowledge you've gathered in a pleasant manner like a lot of the members here
Like most folks I'm on on a lot of DIY forums but to me the fact people share info is what makes the DIY community great
Me I can tell you certain simple things like how a 3PDT works but don't ask me to tell you how a multi pole multi throw rotary connects my head'll explode!
