Guitar playing- learning songs

Harry Klippton

Harry Klippton

Not Interested
Steve's practice thread got me thinking about this. Do you learn songs, solos, riffs, etc?

Historically, most of my guitar playing consisted of writing and performing music, but I'm not playing in bands these days. I spent my beginning years learning by ear and playing along to my favorite records. Occasionally, I'll learn and practice a whole solo from a song if I'm interested in learning something from it. It's a fun challenge sometimes. For a while during lockdown, I was recording whole covers and playing every instrument.

It's fun to learn parts but sometimes I feel like "ok, so what?" So I thought I'd make a thread, share a clip, and invite you to do the same, kind of like Mike's "shut up and play yer guitar" threads, but for anybody to share. This can be like a build report for learning a piece of music.

I recorded this almost exactly a year ago, and it was the first time I spliced together separate audio and video so it's a little wacky. It's the solo from Take Your Memory With You by Vince Gill. It was the kind of thing where it didn't sound that fast until I tried playing it. Flubbing the last couple notes will forever haunt me forever
 
With bass I tend to learn parts of songs that I like. With guitar I tend to learn whole songs, but that's because I mostly learn songs that I can play on my acoustic.

For bass the most recent part I learned was the third verse of Elvis Costello's "Human Hands." I'd been wanting to learn it for a long time but I never took the time to figure it out. It's a pretty fun little piece and it repeats so it's perfect.
 
Learning songs is the primary way I learn. I'm not much of an improviser or musically creative, so having a song gives me structure to learn from.
However, I'm very bad at learning songs, because I get so hung up on the main part/riff, that I never get through the entire song. So I end up knowing lots of parts of many songs, but no songs in their entirety.

This weekend I tried recording myself playing (also inspired by Steve's practice thread). I don't have any recording gear so I just used the voice recorder app and microphone that came on my laptop. No metronome or anything, so the timing is probably crap.

This was the first time in a decade I bothered to actually record and playback for myself. I have a few takeaways from this:
1) I need to do this more often
2) maybe I should get an interface to do better recording + software to allow multi-tracking
3) I need to learn the solos next (if I had the multi-tracking I could lay down a part to solo with)
4) I need to relax more when the recording is happening, as soon as I'd hit record it's like I forgot how to play
5) I wish I could sing
6) I did several takes of this song and most came out ok (this song is all cowboy chords)--not so of the other arrangement I was trying to record (which had some jazz chords and lines), I kept blowing that one. So recording definitely exposed a weakness in a song I thought I could play. Without the recording "watching me" I'm likely to pause or slow down at the tricky parts without realizing it.


https://soundcloud.com/sbanacho%2Fp90-test%2Fs-BU5IobVKZp0
 
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spi said:
Learning songs is the primary way I learn. I'm not much of an improviser or musically creative, so having a song gives me structure to learn from.
However, I'm very bad at learning songs, because I get so hung up on the main part/riff, that I never get through the entire song. So I end up knowing lots of parts of many songs, but no songs in their entirety.

This weekend I tried recording myself playing (also inspired by Steve's practice thread). I don't have any recording gear so I just used the voice recorder app and microphone that came on my laptop. No metronome or anything, so the timing is probably crap.

This was the first time in a decade I bothered to actually record and playback for myself. I was happy enough with the outcome, and I have a few takeaways from this:
1) I need to do this more often
2) maybe I should get an interface to do better recording + software to allow multi-tracking
3) I need to learn the solos next (if I had the multi-tracking I could lay down a part to solo with).
4) I need to relax more when the recording is happening
5) I wish I could sing


https://soundcloud.com/sbanacho%2Fp90-test%2Fs-BU5IobVKZp0
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This is great. Very serviceable. Good song choice too. And I feel you so hard on knowing lots of parts of lots of songs
 
Ok so I wasn’t going to chime in on this but learning song can definitely be a good way to learn I know that’s exactly how I started, and it’s by far the best introduction to the instrument because it can be so frustrating to learn but I have found my first student to be a natural..


This was one of my first video edits I did about 4 years ago that I don’t think I have shown too many people but seems like a fitting thread and why keep this little gem all to myself… it was just good fun.

If this doesn’t convince you that you guys take me to seriously nothing will.
 
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I had a friend who once said to me:

"You know lots of parts, snippets, but do you KNOW ANY SONGS?"

That's when I started learning entire songs, finally. And that started me playing with other musicians.
I may still not know the song perfectly, ie a carbon-copy of the original, but I know it well enough to play the entire song and it's recognizable.

A second friend said I should learn the original part before "interpreting" it.
Nope, if I'm close enough that the part is in the spirit of the song, that's enough for me.

Imagine jamming out "Stand By Me" with its iconic bass-line — I know the song form, I play the iconic bass part such that it is instantly recognised, but if anybody says to me "Well on the original recording that part of the song, you played the wrong note(s), it goes blah blah blah..." — I'll tell that person to F^@% right off — I've served the song, but by the end I'm taking liberties though still serving the song ie it's unmistakably "Stand By Me" or whatever.

That would drive yet a third friend nuts, if we were in a band together, because he takes great pains to make his guitar parts as true to the original as possible — he would expect the bass to be the same as the recording too. Luckily none of the bands I've been in were that mimic-the-record type of cover band.

Frankly, learning stuff verbatim, though challenging, is not something I'm interested in (most cases).
 
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Feral Feline said:
I had a friend who once said to me:

"You know lots of parts, snippets, but do you KNOW ANY SONGS?"

That's when I started learning entire songs, finally. And that started me playing with other musicians.
I may still not know the song perfectly, ie a carbon-copy of the original, but I know it well enough to play the entire song and it's recognizable.

A second friend said I should learn the original part before "interpreting" it.
Nope, if I'm close enough that the part is in the spirit of the song, that's enough for me. And who doesn’t like a well thought out mash up?

Imagine jamming out "Stand By Me" with it's iconic bass-line — I know the song form, I play the iconic bass part such that it is instantly recognised, but if anybody says to me "Well on the original recording that part of the song, you played the wrong note(s), it goes blah blah blah..." — I'll tell that person to F^@% right off — I've served the song, but by the end I'm taking liberties though still serving the song ie it's unmistakably "Stand By Me" or whatever.

That would drive yet a third friend nuts, if we were in a band together, because he takes great pains to make his guitar parts as true to the original as possible — he would expect the bass to be the same as the recording too. Luckily none of the bands I've been in were that mimic-the-record type of cover band.

Frankly, learning stuff verbatim, though challenging, is not something I'm interested in (most cases).
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Some of the best and most rememberable covers (at least for me) have been ones that the band or musicians had totally rearranged, and in some cases I liked even more than the original especially the ones that are cross genre. And who doesn’t like a well thought out mash up?
 
I am trying to concentrate more on songs, especially using the pop 4-chords most songs use. The goal is to just play a song like speaking/thinking.
Learning more triads and also some blues licks that feel good while doing them.
Working on blues progressions and SRV texas rake.
 
But as a tool, learning a song note for note can yield a lot of benefits ( in the guise of getting back on track here.) like tuning your ear, keeping time, learning new tricks and techniques, even on how to utilize your rig to get a specific sound. Its always harder to play like someone else than it is to do what comes naturally, as we all have our own specific phrasing and style..ect.
 
Paradox916 said:
But as a tool, learning a song note for note can yield a lot of benefits ( in the guise of getting back on track here.) like tuning your ear, keeping time, learning new tricks and techniques, even on how to utilize your rig to get a specific sound. Its always harder to play like someone else than it is to do what comes naturally, as we all have our own specific phrasing and style..ect.
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For sure, my earlier comment is specific to performing note for note covers. Learning/ transcribing solos is part of most great jazz musician's practice regime. I always needed a piano or guitar in my hands for such things but an old friend of mine used to sit and transcribe solos with just a discman and some manuscript paper while eating lunch.
 
Yup. I do try to learn some things note-for-note, both as a learning exercise it's very good and as a way to serve the song.

A Root-5 bass-line isn't going to cut it for these 😹 :

1) Marvin Gaye — "What's Going On", James Jamerson
2) Ian Dury & The Blockheads — "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick", Norman Watt-Roy
3) Space Hog — "In the Meantime", Royston Langdon
4) Duran Duran — "Rio", John Taylor

Still struggling with the first to get all the nuances right, mostly rote memorisation difficulties.

Some of the hard stuff, I'll work on it with my slab before attempting on upright, but I doubt I'll ever have the Watt-Roy line up to speed on slab, let alone upright.

"In the Meantime" is another memorisation exercise.

The last one I've nearly got down completely, but on upright I play it in a completely different position to slab so it feels like learning two different basslines.



Here's a pretty good example of where I'm at balancing out playing the song perfectly vs playing it to a level that still serves the song:


Jamareo Artis plays that with A LOT MORE cool little bits thrown in (trills, mini-slides, hammer-ons, slaps etc), but I'm barely able to get the faster flury of notes in the above "essential" version (bar 104 for example, about @3:40), but I'll get there. That "easy" version above is still going to have people getting on the dance floor and only an asshat-pedant musician is going to say "oh, you missed that fill at bar 37 and the little slide at 52, and you didn't..." — unless you're playing with Bruno Mars hissefff, I think it's serviceable. Oh, and I don't slap on it, unless I'm on my upright and then where I slap in the line isn't where Artis slaps.


Anyway, I'm doing my best as an amateur musician to learn that uptight funkin' sucker-line on upright for my niece and nephew.
I'm no Mentaltossflycoon on bass!
 
I do a mix... I'm not a great player by any stretch of the imagination... but I do take lessons. I know basic theory (I've played other instruments)... I'm working on stuff like CAGED, etc. That being said, I try to learn songs... I wanted to get better at barre chords, so I found songs I liked that used a lot of them. I wanted to get better at bends... so I found songs I like that used a lot of them... I wanted to get better at trem picking... yeah, still working on that... I'll get back to you!
 
Feral Feline said:
Yup. I do try to learn some things note-for-note, both as a learning exercise it's very good and as a way to serve the song.

A Root-5 bass-line isn't going to cut it for these 😹 :

1) Marvin Gaye — "What's Going On", James Jamerson
2) Ian Dury & The Blockheads — "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick", Norman Watt-Roy
3) Space Hog — "In the Meantime", Royston Langdon
4) Duran Duran — "Rio", John Taylor

Still struggling with the first to get all the nuances right, mostly rote memorisation difficulties.

Some of the hard stuff, I'll work on it with my slab before attempting on upright, but I doubt I'll ever have the Watt-Roy line up to speed on slab, let alone upright.

"In the Meantime" is another memorisation exercise.

The last one I've nearly got down completely, but on upright I play it in a completely different position to slab so it feels like learning two different basslines.



Here's a pretty good example of where I'm at balancing out playing the song perfectly vs playing it to a level that still serves the song:


Jamareo Artis plays that with A LOT MORE cool little bits thrown in (trills, mini-slides, hammer-ons, slaps etc), but I'm barely able to get the faster flury of notes in the above "essential" version (bar 104 for example, about @3:40), but I'll get there. That "easy" version above is still going to have people getting on the dance floor and only an asshat-pedant musician is going to say "oh, you missed that fill at bar 37 and the little slide at 52, and you didn't..." — unless you're playing with Bruno Mars hissefff, I think it's serviceable. Oh, and I don't slap on it, unless I'm on my upright and then where I slap in the line isn't where Artis slaps.


Anyway, I'm doing my best as an amateur musician to learn that uptight funkin' sucker-line on upright for my niece and nephew.
I'm no Mentaltossflycoon on bass!
Click to expand...

I love all of the isolated Jamerson tracks out there - really great for hearing all of the little nuances of his playing.

I Was Made to Love her is one of my all time favorite lines. I've never learned it, but maybe this thread will inspire me to work it out.

 
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