Not sure exactly how I feel about this

[Robert]

Namely, schematics are copyrighted as an image (not as a circuit design) and protected by copyright laws.

That is my understanding as well, no different than any other piece of physical or digital artwork.

And, best to avoid making it a 100% perfect copy.

Not a problem, my traces are always wrong anyway.

 

[vigilante398]

This is at odds with I've always heard. Namely, schematics are copyrighted as an image (not as a circuit design) and protected by copyright laws. Redrawing schematics is completely permissible and that redraw becomes a copyright of the drawer. And, best to avoid making it a 100% perfect copy.

That is my understanding as well, no different than any other piece of physical or digital artwork.

You're right, I phrased that incorrectly. Circuits can't be copyrighted, but schematics, drawings, and artwork absolutely can. I'll edit my post.

 

[Robert]

I figured that's probably what you meant.

What I'm not sure about is duplicating the component placement.

Let's say I take one of your PCBs and I duplicate it nearly verbatim in DipTrace... I'm not using your actual layout files, I drew it myself, but I'm replicating the placement exactly...

 

[vigilante398]

I figured that's probably what you meant.

What I'm not sure about is duplicating the component placement.

Let's say I take one of your PCBs and I duplicate it nearly verbatim in DipTrace... I'm not using your actual layout files, I drew it myself, but I'm replicating the placement exactly...

Yeah I'm not a lawyer but I think that gets into the legal-but-shitty territory. My understanding (again, not a lawyer) is that once you re-draw it you're basically okay legally, but it doesn't make it less shitty.

 

[Robert]

Never stopped that other guy..... you know, the maniac.

 

[vigilante398]

Never stopped that other guy..... you know, the maniac.

Yeah right when you posted that I remembered that guy. Geeze.

 

[Robert]

Yeah right when you posted that I remembered that guy. Geeze.

Always amazed me that a person can blatantly rip off anothers layout and it still not work properly.

 

[Giorfida]

Yeah right when you posted that I remembered that guy. Geeze.

Definitely falls under the “legal but shitty” category!

 

[benny_profane]

How do I tell them what finish I want?

Gibson - Les Paul.pdf
Stratocaster.jpg

I don't see honeyburst or iced tea as an option....

View attachment 68968

Did you try their new 3D print/CNC service? I think you’re on the wrong page.

 

[Aentons]

What I'm not sure about is duplicating the component placement.

Let's say I take one of your PCBs and I duplicate it nearly verbatim in DipTrace... I'm not using your actual layout files, I drew it myself, but I'm replicating the placement exactly...

Just put a © somewhere on the board. That'll stop them.

 

[Robert]

Just put a © somewhere on the board. That'll stop them.

"Your Honor, I'd like to draw your attention to Exhibit A. This is clearly not a case of infringement, my PCB does not include the © symbol."

 

[radam84]

meh.
people will try and sell anything for a crust.

who cares, move on, there’s much worse.

cunts were selling big monkeys for $500 almost a year ago.

This is true, you speak sense sir. Noted

 

[radam84]

Circuits can't be copyrighted, but full build docs absolutely can. It's funny that he shows a Tonepad build doc in the listing, because Tonepad build docs generally say "Layout and presentation by Francisco Peña 2001-2005©. All rights reserved. Authorization for personal use only, any commercial use is forbidden." Selling a copyrighted document without the copyright owner's permission is illegal.

I haven't looked over all the ones he's selling there, but the first one to jump out at me was the Black Finger compressor. After tracing an original unit I confirmed that every Black Finger schematic currently posted online is incorrect, which leads me to believe that the seller is selling stuff he gathered online "as-is" without verifying them.

Legally shady, ethically shitty.

Ok cool Im new at all of this, so Im glad Im not the only one who feels this is immoral.

 

[radam84]

Man this is a gray area for me, Is dude a shit head? Absolutely….cash grabs from the willfully ignorant by the morally bankrupt is nothing new. I personally blame both parties for this sort of behavior. Nothing that couldn’t be curtailed by a little honesty and doing one’s homework.

Yea, thats where im coming from I know this goes on all the time and everywhere, and if someone out there wants to pay someone for something they can find for free, I mean its their money right, but it still bugs me for whatever reason.

 

[radam84]

If the schematics are cleaned up and redrawn by the guy I see no problem with it... Sams Photofact made a career out of doing just that.

If he's just grabbing other folks images off the net and selling them as a bundle, that's a whole different story...

And if they aren't verified schematics that's just all around wrong.

I guess that is the ultimate question in the end, if they were to be drawing them up themselves I feel the same way(tottally fine) buuuuut whats the likelihood of that being the case? lol

 

[radam84]

Different perspective…. How long would it take someone to source all of the different schematics, copy and save them to a folder then index them?
how much do you get paid by your “day job” for the same number of man-hours?

Lots of variables here so I can’t really judge either way.

I actually had this same though a bit after posting, I can see the value in having an instant library thats already been organised for you, but also like others have said. What happens when some of that library is false information (unverified.etc.)

 

[radam84]

"Why pay US$ 200.00 if you can by the pedals parts and pay only US$ 20.00?"
"YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ENGINEER TO DO THIS!"


RV-3 Digital Reverb - Delay.pdf

Somehow I think it's going to be a little more complicated than that.

Lol right on, thats good stuff.

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

I figured that's probably what you meant.

What I'm not sure about is duplicating the component placement.

Let's say I take one of your PCBs and I duplicate it nearly verbatim in DipTrace... I'm not using your actual layout files, I drew it myself, but I'm replicating the placement exactly...

I think that’s an interesting question because it’s the image that’s protected, but by copying the placement exactly, you’re essentially plagiarizing the image. If plagiarism is a thing in the art world (it is, and it’s very confusing— when do you distinguish between plagiarism/forgery (both illegal; one with the intent of passing it as a newly original work, the other with the intent of passing it as *the* original work) vs an artist reproduction (legal in some cases, not other) or an homage, interpolation, or pure coincidence?
Are we to then view a circuit diagram as a creative work in a legal sense?

 

[radam84]

Never stopped that other guy..... you know, the maniac.

Not sure I actually want to know but Im curious now, what're you referring to?

 

[radam84]

I think that’s an interesting question because it’s the image that’s protected, but by copying the placement exactly, you’re essentially plagiarizing the image. If plagiarism is a thing in the art world (it is, and it’s very confusing— when do you distinguish between plagiarism/forgery (both illegal; one with the intent of passing it as a newly original work, the other with the intent of passing it as *the* original work) vs an artist reproduction (legal in some cases, not other) or an homage, interpolation, or pure coincidence?
Are we to then view a circuit diagram as a creative work in a legal sense?

Tottally didnt think my question would stir up such conversation, really glad it did though. Its super cool hearing everybodies takes on this.