Re-capping old pedals???

[ChrsGuit]

The hour rating for electrolytic caps is at the extremes of the spec. Running a 35V cap at 9V in a room temperature environment with moderate humidity will last far beyond the stated 2,000 hours (or whatever). I don't think I've ever seen 'shelf life' published in a modern datasheet. The temperature extremes are very important for AEC and other stressful applications.

Electros are commonly +/-20%.

20%, my bad. I knew one component had a higher variance while others not so much... maybe I was thinking pots or resistors or something else.
I am very new to all this... I got into building pedals because I can't play at night when the baby is asleep... I'm the type that prefers to build over buy... especially when pedals are so friggin' outrageous and often disappointing... I figure I can build several pedals instead of paying $200 apiece from a company... I don't like them, just throw them on the shelf in case I ever need that particular tone

 

[coltonius]

So they're back to discussing gear instead of insulting each other with Blake repeating everything Brian says, then Brian repeating what Blake says? I used to listen to that podcast all the time, but then they started that crap and I bailed.

I’m convinced that a lot of podcasts would be 75-80% shorter if people would cut the crap and get to the point. At that point, it may as well be a YouTube series!

 

[ChrsGuit]

I’m convinced that a lot of podcasts would be 75-80% shorter if people would cut the crap and get to the point. At that point, it may as well be a YouTube series!

Agree... I mean, I like banter, but nothing worse than listening to a live stream/podcast for the topic at hand hand having 50 minutes of banter and joking and 10 minutes of the content you came for... ESPECIALLY if a bunch of ads and sponsors are involved

 

[Harry Klippton]

Agree... I mean, I like banter, but nothing worse than listening to a live stream/podcast for the topic at hand hand having 50 minutes of banter and joking and 10 minutes of the content you came for... ESPECIALLY if a bunch of ads and sponsors are involved

That's why I don't listen to gear podcasts anymore

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

So they're back to discussing gear instead of insulting each other with Blake repeating everything Brian says, then Brian repeating what Blake says? I used to listen to that podcast all the time, but then they started that crap and I bailed.

I find the banter quite entertaining, and that’s why I listen. I fully recognize that you’ll get 5-10 minutes max of gear talk, but that’s ok with me. After 460 episodes, what really is there to talk about gear-wise any more?

 

[HamishR]

20%, my bad. I knew one component had a higher variance while others not so much... maybe I was thinking pots or resistors or something else.
I am very new to all this... I got into building pedals because I can't play at night when the baby is asleep... I'm the type that prefers to build over buy... especially when pedals are so friggin' outrageous and often disappointing... I figure I can build several pedals instead of paying $200 apiece from a company... I don't like them, just throw them on the shelf in case I ever need that particular tone

I build for the same reasons these days. Well it's (a) something that's fun to do, (b) a way of finding cool sounds and exploring how I can get my sound, and (c) a lot less expensive, and as you say so many pedals are disappointing. I especially enjoy building things like the Vemuram/Ibanez TSV808 for myself because the prices they want are crazy. And even then I've modified my version significantly. All of my fave pedals are "based on" something commercially available. None is exactly what you'd get if you bought one.

 

[ChrsGuit]

I build for the same reasons these days. Well it's (a) something that's fun to do, (b) a way of finding cool sounds and exploring how I can get my sound, and (c) a lot less expensive, and as you say so many pedals are disappointing. I especially enjoy building things like the Vemuram/Ibanez TSV808 for myself because the prices they want are crazy. And even then I've modified my version significantly. All of my fave pedals are "based on" something commercially available. None is exactly what you'd get if you bought one.

I was really disappointed with the TS-808. I've used a bunch of TS pedals over the years, but the 808 I bought new sounds so weak. I think the JHS Screamer and the Ibanez Tone Lok TS-7 are probably the best I heard.
Also, on the Vemuram, I heard there was some controversy about them but the guitarist demoing them didn't elaborate on it. Is it significantly different?

 

[cdwillis]

The controversial thing that comes to mind is Vemuram ripping off Paul C's Timmy circuit and marking it up like they made something special.

 

[JamieJ]

I just don’t get it! There are too many people with more money than sense.

 

[Laundryroom David]

I just don’t get it! There are too many people with more money than sense.

View attachment 48906

Ohmigod

 

[ThePanda]

Only reason I can think of change caps that work is to try to match the tone "mojo" of the old ones.

Maybe in an attempt to capture the cap deprecation/decay of older pedals.

But this idea seems flaky to my understanding of how electronics works.

 

[Cybercow]

Only reason I can think of change caps that work is to try to match the tone "mojo" of the old ones.

Maybe in an attempt to capture the cap deprecation/decay of older pedals.

But this idea seems flaky to my understanding of how electronics works.

Precisely. IMO: There is no "magic" or "mojo" . . . . just science. If a pile of different types of caps of the same value, tolerance and voltage were used to construct identical builds of a circuit, we won't hear a difference in their performance. Pedal circuits don't really run caps at their limits - or even close to their limits. A disc, ceramic, box film, etc cap of the same value, tolerance and voltage will not render any audible differences. A scope might display some differences, but our ears aren't going to hear it.

 

[ChrsGuit]

The controversial thing that comes to mind is Vemuram ripping off Paul C's Timmy circuit and marking it up like they made something special.

Gotcha... kinda like Mason from Vertex with his pedalboards, wah, or his Steel String "oRiGiNaL dEsIgNs"

 

[ChrsGuit]

Only reason I can think of change caps that work is to try to match the tone "mojo" of the old ones.

Maybe in an attempt to capture the cap deprecation/decay of older pedals.

But this idea seems flaky to my understanding of how electronics works.

I will say, I did pull a

Only reason I can think of change caps that work is to try to match the tone "mojo" of the old ones.

Maybe in an attempt to capture the cap deprecation/decay of older pedals.

But this idea seems flaky to my understanding of how electronics works.

I will say, I had a DL4 that started sounding really bad after a show with bad power. All the delays sounded duller and more bass. Puisheen on YouTube said his did the same thing and opted to buy a new one. Some pages advised checking the 1000uf Electrolytic cap near the 9v Jack.
I desoldered it, tested it, and it came back 1,700 uf. Pulled some more caps down the line and the majority tested high... well over the +/-20% tolerance. Only 4 of the dozen or so were within spec. Replaced them all with caps I tested, and the pedal does sound better than it did... much closer to what it did pre-power catastrophe. I have a Way Huge Green Rhino and MM4 Delay that also suffered at the same gig... so now I know how to bring them back. It's worth the hour or so in work opposed to leaving them off my board and piling them on my shelf.

 

[danfrank]

I blew off reading most of this thread because I'm lazy but to answer the OPs question, YES! some electrolytics need to be replaced in old pedals... IE, like old Japanese electrolytics from the 1970s... I'm talking about the grey ones with blue writing, they suck! Lol! Those DO NOT hold up well with time... Don't believe me? Take one out and measure it, it will be out of spec by 100%-200%!
Roland Space Echos are notorious for having bad electrolytics, unless they've been replaced along the way.

 

[jwin615]

I will say, I did pull a

I will say, I had a DL4 that started sounding really bad after a show with bad power. All the delays sounded duller and more bass. Puisheen on YouTube said his did the same thing and opted to buy a new one. Some pages advised checking the 1000uf Electrolytic cap near the 9v Jack.
I desoldered it, tested it, and it came back 1,700 uf. Pulled some more caps down the line and the majority tested high... well over the +/-20% tolerance. Only 4 of the dozen or so were within spec. Replaced them all with caps I tested, and the pedal does sound better than it did... much closer to what it did pre-power catastrophe. I have a Way Huge Green Rhino and MM4 Delay that also suffered at the same gig... so now I know how to bring them back. It's worth the hour or so in work opposed to leaving them off my board and piling them on my shelf.

Ohms law struck. Your gig had a brown out. That's hard on gear, especially tube gear. Lucky your OT made it through.

I'll add, yes, electrons need to be changed, eventually. Lots of variables on "when"

Another note is they may need to be "bettered"
I bought a peavey DSC-2, I think that's the model, dual clock chorus recently. Pink and cool. Sounds great. These are pushing 30 years so I opened it up to check. SMD from peavey in that time? Yep. Way to go to the folks in Meridian Mississippi!
!BUT!
The DC filter cap(the only through hole cap) was only rated for 10V! Ethics aside, how many of those "died" because the cap derated 20% and poped? Probably a lot.
Sometimes in the pro audio world, what is heard as "vintage sounding, round, organic, etc" is partially due to old caps.
I had a Dano pedal I grabbed for a buddy that had stolen caps. The big heavy ones from the mid late 90s. 16v caps, all swollen and derated.
Then you get into older caps and it gets crazy. I have a, iirc, 1953 Hammond M3 organ I picked up minty for $55. The paper and oil caps in it are derated by as much as 300+%. That thing was a picture frame stand from 1983 on.
I've started "collecting" rack gear from the 80s, and I recap every power supply before it gets toyes with. I don't care where it was or how much it was used or what the caps look like.
Every electrolytic cap has a finite lifespan in any and every situation. The way I see it, I'm ensure that piece of gear works, mechanicals aside, for decades to come and it usually only cost a few dollars(sans the Hammond).
If you recap gear, use quality caps(nichicon, Rubicon, Panasonic) in the highest temp rating you can get them, especially in power supplies or HV gear.

 

[ICTRock]

Ok, so I've heard some real off-the-wall stuff, but this takes the cake.
A very respectable gear repair page I follow on IG threw me for a loop today.

The owner was showing an old Boss Delay he had in his shop, and showed a walkthrough of him replacing all the Electrolytic capacitors...

Now obviously, Old amps (Fender, Marshall, etc need recapped every so many decades due to leakage, Electrolytic goop drying out, etc... but this is the first time I'd ever heard of someone recapping pedals. I always understood it that pedals (for the most part) don't pass enough voltage through them to warrant such maintenance... I asked about this and the response was that "Electrolytic datasheets list a shelf-life, therefore a pedal is subject to being serviced as one would an amp". I did some searching and found very little information on this. In one of the few forums I found (on Gpage), Analogman Mike himself weighed in saying it wasn't necessary unless a pedal was broken or misbehaving... or perhaps a pedal had been boxed up for many years unused and the caps possibly "dried up"...
Anyone care to weigh in on this, cause this is a new one on me...

Just curious if any of you guys have ever heard of such a thing, or is it simply "crystal lettuce" and "magic diode" pixie dust?

I had to re-cap an early v1 small stone because they dried out. Others have explained why ... it's a battle of heat and time and by the time I had to do the cap job the thing was over 30 years old

 

[ThePanda]

I'll give a not joking answer.

Recapping a pedal I don't think would be unheard of depending on the life the pedal lived and how it may have been treated.

When I was repairing computers in the mid-2000s, I saw a few motherboards needing to be recapped due to leakage. Computers don't take more than 12V max and most components take even less.

The computers were not gaming PCs, they were home PCs of varied ages.

 

[mzy12]

Caps get old and start dropping in capacitance and acting more like resistors. This happens in amps, computers, phones (not that anyone keeps a phone around long enough for this to ever matter lol) and it happens in pedals. Electrolytic caps are particularly vulnerable to aging due to their construction method. Some people will take the shotgun approach of replacing every electro cap they find if they get an old pedal. I am definitely guilty of this even though I know it's not really the "correct" way to do things (the "correct" way is know what each cap's function is, know if degrading performance matters in that part of the circuit and measure it). I know it's definitely valuable to take a cheap-ass old BBD pedal made in the 80's and replace all the crap caps in there to reduce noise by making it actually filter the signal properly. If you want to be a bit more judicious with your time and ten-ish cent elctro caps, I'd just replace the power bypass caps on anything more than 20-30 years old.

Knowing exactly when to replace caps and which ones need to be replaced with what does require a combination of knowledge and experience, both of which I only have a few handfuls of compared to, say, an actually qualified electronic engineer. My main word of caution is to be careful when asking about caps on online forums because you will eventually get people saying you gotta spend 10x times more on this very special capacitor that is more open and airy due to nebulous reasons that have nothing to do with the actual specs of the product and everything to do with the fact it's a special colour or looks fancy on a PCB. Learn to read datasheets and understand what they mean when they say stuff (again I must admit to my amateur nature in this regard - I by no means know what everything means and wouldn't feel confident in telling you exactly what stuff you should look out for)