A Vision, clearly.
Why are people like this?
- Thread starter Pauleo1214
- Start date
falco_femoralis
Well-known member
It's possible he may have been asking for a Buy it Now listing rather than an auction, and wanted to know how you would value the pedal.
This could be his way of devising what he's willing to pay, or maybe he doesn't want to wait for the end of the auction, or to compete with other bidders who may drive the price up higher than the lowest price you're willing to take.
Setting a listing price is your first way of communicating the value of your pedals and separating serious buyers from window shoppers.
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
Except we're dealing with someone whose internal monologue is:
I don’t want to be rude and lowball, I just prefer clarity.
Auctions are too unpredictable for my price range of $115, and it’s better for both of us to know where things stand.
If he has a number in mind, I’d rather respect that than play bidding games. That’s just being considerate. And honestly, I know what I’m after tonally. I’ve done my research. I can describe the vibe pretty well.
Builders appreciate informed customers. It shows seriousness. This schematic lays it out conceptually, not literal parts, more like a roadmap. I have great ideas. ENGl Kunsack ideas.
A good builder will understand the intent.
It’s not about copying a Strymon or anything, just capturing the essence. The feel. The response. The character. I mean, circuits are modular by nature. If you understand signal flow, you can approximate anything.
And he already builds pedals, so this is in his wheelhouse. It’s just combining ideas. Plus I’d give feedback, help refine it. It could even become a product for him. After all, I will offer to promote it on my YouTube channel. I got three views today!
I’m not asking for miracles, just something in that direction. Builders like creative challenges.
And if he really wanted to, he could probably get very close. Technology is pretty advanced now. I just need someone willing to experiment.
Mentaltossflycoon
Well-known member
Kunsack sounds derogatory.
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
@Mentaltossflycoon : Today I am going to ruin a perfectly good thread by insinuating something. That should do it.
Fuzzonaut
Well-known member
I don't know why people are like this, but I do know that I'd loooooooove to see more @Pauleo1214 builds, they are the best, I really miss those build reports!
Dumpster D
Member
Wait until you see MY Vision...It's so bright I have to wear my sunglasses at night.
There's guys in bands out there all like:
I'm not sure if you know this, but I'm kind of a big deal. They're a dime a dozen, so don't sell yourself short.
Keep up the good work eh. You guys are hilarious.
There's guys in bands out there all like:
I'm not sure if you know this, but I'm kind of a big deal. They're a dime a dozen, so don't sell yourself short.
Keep up the good work eh. You guys are hilarious.
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Paging @Harry Klippton
Build doc?
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
Aren't the build docs sitting on Pam Bondi's desk?
You can't increase prices or appear like you're attempting to squeeze more money out of people and drive up churn.
The product service has a value, if someone wants to price war then sure - let them give their product away for free only to have a free customer, a customer that has no need to stay but will expect more for nothing. Globally if you want to support slave labour and not local companies for providing value - go right ahead free customer.
Products and services are getting faster to copy, yet often the copies don't understand the problem or provide a long time solution. There's a cost for many companies integrating and switching supplier components. For consumers less so but they will often buy less frequently preferring ROI. All depends on the product/service. What is valuable for companies and customers one day can change the next.
The problem many 'artisans' or companies fall into is assuming that the product value is related to effort, or more accurately their own perception of effort. If you CNC a guitar - great. However every other company will. If you build a plan acoustic archtop - great. However every other company will in a saturated market. Just because you think it's valued doesn't mean it is. People value/desire the reputation and brand of a Martin for example. The cost remains high and viable. They research how to get better for lower cost but maintaining quality (as much as materials and ROI timeframes allow - growing your own climate controlled forrest is a little too long).
(Damn, 30 years in product, tech and 'innovation' has made me a cynic)
Redhat (a linux operating system company) created a style of 'free' which is you get the product for free but the support and feature prioritisation is charged. It is a fully viable product but it's not free to those that value it - companies.
This is the same problem I see with amps, pedals, guitars, and software. You have to let go and be objective in the strategic view. And drop the free customer because free doesn't generate a business or a sales pipeline.
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The Bill Docs?
Erik S
Well-known member
That’s well said.
As an employee I’m paid for my time at a fixed rate, so it’s easy to assume a product I spend my time making increases in value relative to time spent, but that is absolutely not the case. A thing is worth what people are happy to spend on it.
There was a "how to price your pedals" thread a while back, and there were some suggestions of tracking all your costs and hours, then "making sure you're getting paid for your time". It would be cool if the world worked that way, but I think establishing a real business probably means figuring out what your finished product will sell for in the market first, then figuring out if you can make it cheaply enough to eke out a profit second.
I was interested to see @Pauleo1214 listing builds as no-reserve auctions, because doing it that way skips over the pricing problem, and gives you some real-world feedback about how the market values your product.
I had an interesting conversation with a local pedal builder who is making an effort to build a real business. He's been sending his stuff out to YouTubers, and said he can see a measurable sales bump following a video that represents a good return on his costs of getting the demos done.
It's possible that I need to let go and be objective about both the fact that the pedal clone I spent 10 hours building may only be worth $40, and the fact that a crappy Youtube video of some dude making guitar face may be an objectively valuable service.
That said, the particular youtuber inspired this thread sounds like a whackadoo, and I don't think Pauleo is running the kind of operation that needs "exposure".
Thankfully I'm not trying to make any money at this pedal stuff, but it's all interesting to think about.
And that's the crux -- product demo reviews aren't customers they're reviewers. They have a contract to review your product in return for the product (or the time with the product) "free" in a monetary sense. The customer is still purchasing at full (or on offer) so it's not free.
I've ported software for a specialist camera manufacturer, todo that I had be loaned some hardware. The time to implement and support for a period meant I had access for non-coding work. For Astrophotography work - testing but not testing. By going along to star parties I was essentially publicising. I returned the cameras but they gifted me a camera (probably a tax write off for them given the time).
Erik S
Well-known member
In the case of the pedal builder I was talking to, depending on what tier youtuber, some demos can be had for free product, but the more established channels are getting paid.
Pauleo1214
Well-known member
Bad joke. As in we'll never see them because they'll never be released.
DGWVI
Well-known member
So, the friend I'm building the IVP for wanted to have another guy CNC laser cut and engrave the enclosures. CNC dude took two weeks to send me this mockup -
I was completely unaware that he'd be using AI, and doing a shit job of it. Too many pots, spacing way off, labels all scrongled and repeated. This is after sending him the Aion drill template with coordinates and measurements, and confirming with my populated boards that they do indeed match up perfectly
I'm a total dipshit when it comes to doing anything on a computer, but like I'd at least compare the output to the source material
I was completely unaware that he'd be using AI, and doing a shit job of it. Too many pots, spacing way off, labels all scrongled and repeated. This is after sending him the Aion drill template with coordinates and measurements, and confirming with my populated boards that they do indeed match up perfectly
I'm a total dipshit when it comes to doing anything on a computer, but like I'd at least compare the output to the source material
Fama
Well-known member
Was that really the CNC guy? You would think someone like that would have messed up more often so they would know they need to be very careful with the measurements, not just throw shit at AI and hope for the best.So, the friend I'm building the IVP for wanted to have another guy CNC laser cut and engrave the enclosures. CNC dude took two weeks to send me this mockup - View attachment 115846
I was completely unaware that he'd be using AI, and doing a shit job of it. Too many pots, spacing way off, labels all scrongled and repeated. This is after sending him the Aion drill template with coordinates and measurements, and confirming with my populated boards that they do indeed match up perfectly
I'm a total dipshit when it comes to doing anything on a computer, but like I'd at least compare the output to the source material
Also as a side note, why the hell did I never think of marking the pots like that when testing without knobs? Such a simple thing, but so much better than "just wing it" when trying out if the pedal sounds correct.
DGWVI
Well-known member
Yeah. I've seen a couple of his other boxes he's done but they've just been midi controllers with a screen and handful of stomps, with the layouts done by him. They looked decent, so figured there'd be nothing to worry about.
