Bring out yer Diptrace

[szukalski]

Threw this together this morning, inspired by comments from @szukalski:

Loving it. I would also recommend making a jig so you can solder the DC jack in the right place. I usually use a bit of blu-tack and align up with the enclosure holes, but it's annoying and not scalable. You could easily make a PCB jig/frame.

 

[Big Monk]

Loving it. I would also recommend making a jig so you can solder the DC jack in the right place. I usually use a bit of blu-tack and align up with the enclosure holes, but it's annoying and not scalable. You could easily make a PCB jig/frame.

The only issue is that obviously the Cliff Jacks skew my cost per pedal, as they are more expensive than the Tayda Jacks. But the time savings will offset that I'm sure.

Also, it removes the need for the longer Pin Headers from Digikey, which will also offset the cost because i will not need to make a special order from Digikey for them.

 

[vigilante398]

What size traces do you use with tube circuits @vigilante398
Also what do you do interns of space between ground and traces?

I typically do 15mil signal traces and keep them as far apart as possible. Most of my boards these days are 4-layer, so I have a dedicated ground place and a split power plane. When routing gets tight I allow DC lines (ground, power) to be closer to audio signals, but I try to keep audio signals as far apart from each other as possible.

 

[JamieJ]

Thanks Nathan!

 

[Smrtokvitek]

What is your recommended pcb width for the 125B enclosure? @PedalPCB boards are usually 1.9in, but I feel a 2.3in should be doable.

 

[Big Monk]

What is your recommended pcb width for the 125B enclosure? @PedalPCB boards are usually 1.9in, but I feel a 2.3in should be doable.

You can go as wide as 59mm in my experience. That’s the standard width of my 125B boards.

 

[finebyfine]

What is your recommended pcb width for the 125B enclosure? @PedalPCB boards are usually 1.9in, but I feel a 2.3in should be doable.

I think the Tayda 125B has supposedly changed recently but I've gotten as wide as 60.96mm (2.4in) before although it's definitely close as hell to the edges - I gotta imagine I stole that from Rob somewhere.

I tried to confirm I stole that from Rob and looked up some of the wider boards for what its worth:

• 2.35in (59.69mm) wide: Ocelot, Parenthesis Mini, Abider, Dirty Sanchez, Derailer, Mofeta, Polonium, SMD Scream Machine, Wilhelm Scream
• 2.375in (60.325mm) wide: FV1 Dev Board, Wrectifier

Edit: That said, I usually start with 53.34mm (2.1in) or 55.88 (2.2in) unless I'm absolutely desperate for space and or potentiometer placement calls for it.

 

[vigilante398]

I do 2.1" for my 125B designs and it's got wiggle room so I know you can go bigger, but I'm too lazy to change my template.

 

[neiltheseal]

Another revision based on dry fitting and real wiring of the test units:

View attachment 52197

1.) I made the board 1mm narrower overall

2.) I had to switch to a shallower Eagle Plastics ground spring because the Keystone was bottoming out

3.) Switched to the 8 Pin Fujitsu relay based on @szukalski advice

4.) Spaced things out a little more, as I found some of the stuff was a bit tight

This looks great. Do you have a schematic for the relay switch that you used?

 

[Big Monk]

This looks great. Do you have a schematic for the relay switch that you used?

The relay is a Fujitsu FTR-B3CA4.5Z

Datasheet:

https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2205121730_FUJITSU-FTR-B3CA4-5Z_C353043.pdf

 

[Robert]

You can go as wide as 59mm in my experience. That’s the standard width of my 125B boards.

My standard is 2.35" width for 125B.

The FV-1 Dev board is 2.375" wide so the PCB is flush against the enclosure on both sides to accommodate the USB port (and prevent the board
from shifting from side to side when plugging the cable in).

 

[neiltheseal]

The relay is a Fujitsu FTR-B3CA4.5Z

Datasheet:

https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2205121730_FUJITSU-FTR-B3CA4-5Z_C353043.pdf

Will this work?

Mini Relay DPDT A-4.5W-K 4.5VDC 10PIN 2Poles 1A

FUJITSU COMPONENTS - Get It Fast - Same Day Shipping

www.taydaelectronics.com

 

[Big Monk]

Will this work?

Mini Relay DPDT A-4.5W-K 4.5VDC 10PIN 2Poles 1A

FUJITSU COMPONENTS - Get It Fast - Same Day Shipping

www.taydaelectronics.com

Yeah. It’s the same relay just the End of Life 10 pin version.

@szukalski hipped me to the one I sent you because it’s a current model (no new design concerns with being obsolete) and it’s cheaper.

If you are using a Pedal PCB relay bypass, you’ll want the 10 pin though.

 

[neiltheseal]

Yeah. It’s the same relay just the End of Life 10 pin version.

@szukalski hipped me to the one I sent you because it’s a current model (no new design concerns with being obsolete) and it’s cheaper.

If you are using a Pedal PCB relay bypass, you’ll want the 10 pin though.

Thanks. I'd ideally like to make my own for the circuits I'm sending to JLPCB.I buy lots of stuff from Tayda so that's easy. I there a good resource for relays? Istruggle to read the datasheets for them. They are not what I'm used to such as ICs and transistors.

 

[szukalski]

Thanks. I'd ideally like to make my own for the circuits I'm sending to JLPCB.I buy lots of stuff from Tayda so that's easy. I there a good resource for relays? Istruggle to read the datasheets for them. They are not what I'm used to such as ICs and transistors.

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-articles/relay-true-bypass-switching-1

how does a relay work in a guitar pedal - Google Search

 

[jwin615]

Thanks. I'd ideally like to make my own for the circuits I'm sending to JLPCB.I buy lots of stuff from Tayda so that's easy. I there a good resource for relays? Istruggle to read the datasheets for them. They are not what I'm used to such as ICs and transistors.

There are tons of cross reference sheets out there for various manufacturers (tyco, omron, Fujitsu)
If you know one model that works, you can reference them to find alternatives easy.

Omron Cross Reference https://www.casa.co.nz/electrics/relays/RELAYS-CROSS-REF.pdf

 

[Big Monk]

Thanks. I'd ideally like to make my own for the circuits I'm sending to JLPCB.I buy lots of stuff from Tayda so that's easy. I there a good resource for relays? Istruggle to read the datasheets for them. They are not what I'm used to such as ICs and transistors.

Let's do an example using the Pedal PCB Basic Relay Bypass as reference and the A-4.5W-K:



The A-4.5W-K is a non-latching relay, meaning it is NC without power and NO when power is applied and energizing the coil, shown as Pins 1 and 10.

The datasheet shows the de-energized condition, meaning that without power, the relay will put the pedal in true bypass condition. The de-energized state is shown in the Pedal PCB schematic, with Pins 2 and 9 active on the relay.

When power is applied, the relay changes state to pins 4 and 7.

It's important to remember that Pins 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 form a 3PDT switch, just like any other bypass switch. Pins 1 and 10 are the energization/closing/actuation coil, meaning that depending on the type of relay, energization vs. de-energization of the coil operates the switch contacts.

As far as implementing relays into PCB footprints or existing layouts, it is important to keep two things in mind:

1.) The orientation mark denotes the energization coil end

2.) The footprints on the datasheets are BOTTOM views typically.

With respect to 2.) it is important to orient your PCB footprint properly:

 

[szukalski]

Love it. I should also mention, if you mess up your relay footprint so your coil is the wrong way, then you can always solder the relay from the other side and it will work. Speaking from experience..

 

[Big Monk]

Speaking from experience..

Me too...

 

[neiltheseal]

Let's do an example using the Pedal PCB Basic Relay Bypass as reference and the A-4.5W-K:

View attachment 56910View attachment 56909

The A-4.5W-K is a non-latching relay, meaning it is NC without power and NO when power is applied and energizing the coil, shown as Pins 1 and 10.

The datasheet shows the de-energized condition, meaning that without power, the relay will put the pedal in true bypass condition. The de-energized state is shown in the Pedal PCB schematic, with Pins 2 and 9 active on the relay.

When power is applied, the relay changes state to pins 4 and 7.

It's important to remember that Pins 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 form a 3PDT switch, just like any other bypass switch. Pins 1 and 10 are the energization/closing/actuation coil, meaning that depending on the type of relay, energization vs. de-energization of the coil operates the switch contacts.

As far as implementing relays into PCB footprints or existing layouts, it is important to keep two things in mind:

1.) The orientation mark denotes the energization coil end

2.) The footprints on the datasheets are BOTTOM views typically.

With respect to 2.) it is important to orient your PCB footprint properly:

View attachment 56911 View attachment 56913

Thanks so much. This is really helpful