Help me pick out some tubes

BuddytheReow

Breadboard Baker
I think it may be time to tinker with some tube circuits. The problem is I know virtually nothing about how they work or what's considered a "good" one to start out with. I know some of you have built with them and I want to see what all the fuss is about. Can anyone recommend some good reading material on how they work, the difference compared to a transistor, and possibly recommend a few to pick up for tube noob like me?
 
I’d start with a good HV primer. Working with a SMPS can go around 350V. I’m currently working on a 12AX7 (dual triode) preamp. It’s a common tube with a lot of circuits drawn around it. But I’m no expert.

You’ve probably read “A closer look at the Fetzer valve”, but it may be worth a 2nd glance. (y)
 
I’d start with a good HV primer. Working with a SMPS can go around 350V. I’m currently working on a 12AX7 (dual triode) preamp. It’s a common tube with a lot of circuits drawn around it. But I’m no expert.

You’ve probably read “A closer look at the Fetzer valve”, but it may be worth a 2nd glance. (y)
Forgot about that fetzer article. Sorry for the noob question, but what do those acronyms mean?
 
I still need to read up a bit on the subject, but would I need a whole separate set of components for the high voltage? Resistors, caps, etc.
 
 
I may just have to read those again. So much great knowledge in there.
 
Thanks for pulling those links so I didn't have to :p happy to help answer any questions you have if they aren't covered already. I don't think I'm old enough to be considered a tube expert, but I've built a good handful of tube circuits including a fair number of original designs and have a reasonable understanding of their general goings on.
 
Check out The Tube Store, I got a great deal on some JAN 12AX7 there.

While I'm not as tube savvy as HamishR and Vigilante398 (I've bought a drop compared to the buckets of tubes they've bought), The Tube Store has been the best I've found for sourcing tubes.

Yeeps! I just checked the JAN GE prices and they've gone wayyyyheyyyy up. So maybe not mil-spec JANs then...

Still, I got great customer service from The Tube Store, and very good CS from Amplified Parts, too.


For some circuits, and/or for bass, you may want to check out getting some 12AU7 tubes, a little less gain than the Xes which may have Xcessive harsher distortion when you're looking for just some smooth grit.

Haven't read this, it was the first hit to find some info for you about 12A?7 series tubes:
 
Oh that reminds me, someone brought this video to my intention the other day. It's done on bass so you have to use your imagination on how it carries over to guitar, but I think he did a great job showing the gain differences between different tube types.

Also lets you hear the Space Heater preamp, which I'll hopefully have a working DIY project for soon (but without the turrets and engraved wood faceplate).

 
A smaller tube amp kit might be a great intro. I started out building tube hi fi stuff in the late 70s, at first 12ax7 preamps, then 6DJ8 preamps*, and eventually some mono blocks. You do need different components, but more importantly, you need to unlearn many of the build habits that learning on low voltage DC projects can lead to. While any AC project can be dangerous, ones that use 350 or 450 v are definitely “sit on one hand when you reach in” devices.

Anyway, a lower powered amp head or combo kit would be a great intro. There are also several good micro tube amp projects (that could be made in larger pedal format) that would be fun too. I have most of the parts sourced an easy decade ago, for a .5 watt micro tube amp in a box, somewhere in my attic, that I really should hunt down.

(* I’ve never understood why the 6DJ8 (E88 family) tubes never made any inroads as guitar preamp tubes. Every hi fi preamp I made with them was better than any of the 12a*7 variants I tried.)
 
(* I’ve never understood why the 6DJ8 (E88 family) tubes never made any inroads as guitar preamp tubes. Every hi fi preamp I made with them was better than any of the 12a*7 variants I tried.)
Guitar preamps are designed differently than hi-fi preamps, we don't use 6DJ8 mostly because they don't have enough gain. 12AX7, every amp-builder's dual triode of choice, has a mu (amplification factor) of 100, whereas 6DJ8 has a mu of 33, putting it just above a 12AU7. Typically for guitar amps you want something in the 70-100 range, so things like 5751 and 6SL7 on the lower gain side and 12AX7 on the higher gain side. We play tube amps because we want tube dirt.
 
Oh that reminds me, someone brought this video to my intention the other day. It's done on bass so you have to use your imagination on how it carries over to guitar, but I think he did a great job showing the gain differences between different tube types.

Also lets you hear the Space Heater preamp, which I'll hopefully have a working DIY project for soon (but without the turrets and engraved wood faceplate).

I saw that video a few days ago. How do you think it would transfer over to the Black Eye?

Another thought I had, but was not sure about since I’m not too adept at reading tube circuits: could you do 12AX7 for v1 and a 12AU7 for v2 or vice versa similar to how you might put a low gain transistor as q1 and a high gain transistor as q2 or vice versa in a two-transistor fuzz? Of course the black eye is two dual-triodes so it would be more comparable to a 4-transistor circuit, but just for the sake of my question, the two-transistor fuzz is what popped in my head. Not sure if the two tubes have to match each other (only glanced over the build doc and schematic), but if not, do you think that might be a worthwhile idea?
 
Check out The Tube Store, I got a great deal on some JAN 12AX7 there.

While I'm not as tube savvy as HamishR and Vigilante398 (I've bought a drop compared to the buckets of tubes they've bought), The Tube Store has been the best I've found for sourcing tubes.

Yeeps! I just checked the JAN GE prices and they've gone wayyyyheyyyy up. So maybe not mil-spec JANs then...

Still, I got great customer service from The Tube Store, and very good CS from Amplified Parts, too.


For some circuits, and/or for bass, you may want to check out getting some 12AU7 tubes, a little less gain than the Xes which may have Xcessive harsher distortion when you're looking for just some smooth grit.

Haven't read this, it was the first hit to find some info for you about 12A?7 series tubes:
Good reading on the tube differences. In my case, it turned out that a 12AX7 wasn't the best choice for my BK Butler clone. They have the highest gain, which makes total sense. A 12AT7 type tube still felt a bit too high. 12AU7 was the magic one. A lower gain tube made all the difference in this circuit. Might consider one of each just to test things out with. :D
 
I saw that video a few days ago. How do you think it would transfer over to the Black Eye?

Another thought I had, but was not sure about since I’m not too adept at reading tube circuits: could you do 12AX7 for v1 and a 12AU7 for v2 or vice versa similar to how you might put a low gain transistor as q1 and a high gain transistor as q2 or vice versa in a two-transistor fuzz? Of course the black eye is two dual-triodes so it would be more comparable to a 4-transistor circuit, but just for the sake of my question, the two-transistor fuzz is what popped in my head. Not sure if the two tubes have to match each other (only glanced over the build doc and schematic), but if not, do you think that might be a worthwhile idea?
I think it would carry over reasonably well, it gives you an idea of how much the tubes themselves will overdrive. As for mixing and matching in different positions it's absolutely something you could do. A single tube stage by itself doesn't distort really, it's only when you feed it too hot of an input signal that it gets into overdrive. So running a 12AX7 as V1 would give it more gain in the earlier stages, which would push the later stages harder, whereas a lower gain tube like 12AU7 in V1 wouldn't push very much and you would get much less distortion, even with a 12AX7 in V2. I wouldn't go out of your way to source a bunch of tubes to try it, but if you already have a couple different types on hand I would definitely say it's a worthwhile experiment.

Good reading on the tube differences. In my case, it turned out that a 12AX7 wasn't the best choice for my BK Butler clone. They have the highest gain, which makes total sense. A 12AT7 type tube still felt a bit too high. 12AU7 was the magic one. A lower gain tube made all the difference in this circuit. Might consider one of each just to test things out with. :D
Yeah on lower voltage circuits like Valvecaster and Tube Driver the rules change a bit. 12AX7 doesn't like being starved and sounds harsh and brittle when plate voltage is less than 150V or so. 12AU7 doesn't mind a low plate voltage and runs quite well starved.
 
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