Kliche mini choking out bypassed signal

griff10672

griff10672

Active member
Hey Folks ...
I've just built several kliche mini's and starting testing them .
each one I've tested so far ... 5 of them .... has the same symptoms .... they are killing my bypassed tone .
when I shut off the pedal it pretty much kills my tone .... almost sounds like a crappy OD that's on . and it doesn't sound all that great when turned on either .
for reference I have a Kliche OD ( 1590BB ) that I built a few years ago .... this pedal does not do this at all and sounds amazing . ( the parts are exactly the same other than I've used carbon comp on the mini and used metal resistors on the Kliche OD and the diodes )
I don't think it has anything to do with resistor material or the diodes ... I think it's the charge pump .
when looking at Electrosmashes breakdown of the Klon ... I noticed it was using a MAX1044 instead of a TC1044SCPA ...
I had a few Maxx's on hand and threw one in .... it almost totally fixed the issue ... when on the pedal sounds amazing ... but when off ... it's better ... but not like my Kliche OD .
Funny thing is ... I purchased a JRockett Archer used at GC that did the exact same thing ... when off ... my signal was just stunted and buzzy .... like a crappy OD pedal
I'm assuming this is a charge pump issue ? is there a way to tweak it ?? I've looked over the schematics for the mini and the Kliche OD ... they are the same as far as I can tell ... and my Kliche OD works 100% perfect
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I’d assume this was more of a buffered bypass issue. The charge pump shouldn’t effect the bypass as the first opamp isn’t supplied by the charge pump. Charge pump issues tend to be whine related in this circuit.

You could audio probe the bypass circuitry when the pedal is bypassed to see where the issue is most significant. Check the component values covering the bypass part of the circuit. Is the 4u7 in the correct orientation? Pictures are helpful!


698FDDA5-8BCC-4337-80D4-4AAEC21BA212.jpeg

What is odd is that your archer has had the same effect. What pedals are you using it with and what power supply?
 

Attachments

  • 8F681F14-1401-4AF0-8ABD-06674A334723.jpeg
    8F681F14-1401-4AF0-8ABD-06674A334723.jpeg
    417.6 KB · Views: 7
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hey Jamie ...
Thanks a ton for the input .... I'm testing the pedals by themselves with a regular 9volt supply ( I forget what brand) .
guitar into pedal into a Marshall 2204 .
the Archer was worse than my Kliche mini .... I have signal .... it just sounds raped of it's low end and totally lifeless ...
I thought about tracing the signal ..... I guess I don't have a choice now .
the treble knob doesn't act like my Kliche OD either .... almost acts like it's in reverse like a Log pot I turn it up treble goes away .
wonder if that's tied into the issue
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
griff10672 said:
Hey Jamie ...
Thanks a ton for the input .... I'm testing the pedals by themselves with a regular 9volt supply ( I forget what brand) .
guitar into pedal into a Marshall 2204 .
the Archer was worse than my Kliche mini .... I have signal .... it just sounds raped of it's low end and totally lifeless ...
I thought about tracing the signal ..... I guess I don't have a choice now .
the treble knob doesn't act like my Kliche OD either .... almost acts like it's in reverse like a Log pot I turn it up treble goes away .
wonder if that's tied into the issue
Click to expand...

It may not be relevant in any way, but I thought the first kliché mini special edition I built was messed up but I finally realized that I just had the pots labeled incorrectly.

I tend to agree with Jamie, sounds like a buffer issue.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
tracing the signal now ..... no luck as of yet .... I'm not audio tracing .... I'm using a scope ....attached a pic
 

Attachments

  • 20230502_135607.jpg
    20230502_135607.jpg
    467.3 KB · Views: 42
Upvote 0 Downvote
OK I've included a few pics of my scope .... the first pic is from my Kliche OD ... running a sine wave into it ....scope placed directly on the output jack .. pedal is off / bypassed .
the other two pics are the Kliche mini set up on the scope the same way . the pedal is off / bypassed .... and it looks like a chainsaw blade sort of ..
what you can't see is the Kliche mini signal jumping and fluttering a bit on the screen .... while the Kliche OD stays perfect not moving a bit
definitely something going on ... and it's the same on all 5 pedals that I've built so far ... I'm fairly new to the scope ... could that be Dc voltage leaking into my bypassed signal somehow ?
If I remove the TC1044SCPA while the pedal is off those little saw teeth go away and everything looks smooth ... and the Maxx1044 I tried makes it even worse .....more crap on the signal than the TC1044
so I'm thinking it's definitely the charge pump ..... I guess I have to track down where that noise starts if I can .... I hope it's not the new layout ... cause I just built a crap ton of these ...
 

Attachments

  • 20230502_152111.jpg
    20230502_152111.jpg
    466.3 KB · Views: 10
  • 20230502_152240.jpg
    20230502_152240.jpg
    463.2 KB · Views: 10
  • 20230502_152317.jpg
    20230502_152317.jpg
    502.5 KB · Views: 10
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
JamieJ said:
Have you got a 7660SCPA?
Click to expand...
no ... I do not .... I saw someone mentioned trying one of those is some research I did . I'm going to order one to see if it will work
I traced down exactly where those little saw blades start showing in my bypassed signal ..... right on the negative lead of C3
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Regarding the Kliche mini ...
Anyone have an idea why I would have voltage on my output jack ........ I'm getting 0.513 V AC / 0.5 mV DC on my out put jack ...
and throughout the buffered bypass circuit . If I pull the TC1044SCPA out ..... the Voltage goes away ..... it seems to be only on the buffer path of the circuit ...
when I trace the circuit on my scope .... from input to output .... nothing on my input jack ... or R31 .... the voltage shows up right on the side of R1 that touches C1 and runs through the whole buffered bypass part of the circuit to my out jack .
I'm assuming that's what's destroying my bypassed tone and causing some weird buzzing on the end of played notes / chords
When I trace my Kliche OD none of this happens .... zero voltage ... bypassed my signal is fine if not sounding better due to the buffer working correctly I'm assuming .
literally the only difference in the two are that I didn't use a Footswitch board on my Kliche OD .... I wired the footswitch direct to the main board .
all the parts are the same ........
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
OK ..... so further went through the circuit with my scope ..... and found that the " treble , volume and gain still effect the signal when the pedal is off ...
any ideas what could be causing that ? cause that has to be why my bypassed signal sounds like crap ... no ??
my Kliche OD does not do this at all ...... but these Kliche minis that I've built are all doing that ... the controls still effect the signal big time ...
is there a spot in the circuit to test to see why the signal is still going through when off ??
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
griff10672 said:
OK ..... so further went through the circuit with my scope ..... and found that the " treble , volume and gain still effect the signal when the pedal is off ...
Click to expand...

This would most likely be an offboard wiring / footswitch issue.

Nothing immediately stands out in your pic, but that'd be where I'd start looking. Ensure that the switching around R28 / R29 is happening.

R28 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is in bypass, R29 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is active.

Ensure that R28 reads low (near zero) ohms and R29 measures 68K when the pedal is bypassed.

R28 should measure near 68K and R29 should be near zero when the pedal is active.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Robert said:
This would most likely be an offboard wiring / footswitch issue.

Nothing immediately stands out in your pic, but that'd be where I'd start looking. Ensure that the switching around R28 / R29 is happening.

R28 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is in bypass, R29 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is active.

Ensure that R28 reads low (near zero) ohms and R29 measures 68K when the pedal is bypassed.

R28 should measure near 68K and R29 should be near zero when the pedal is active.
Click to expand...
Thanks !!! I thought it might have been footswitch related .... so I built one with the included break out board and one without .... same issue ..

funny thing ... I've been researching the hell out of Buffers ... and trying to learn about impedance ... I don't have a Impedance meter ( yet )

but just for poops and giggles I took my multimeter and set it for resistance .... I put the leads on the input jack and the other on the output jack .

I'm still using my Kliche OD that works properly for reference . with both circuits off they measure the same about the same .. 1M

when I switch them on ... the Kliche OD goes up to abaout 1.1M .... but the Kliche mini drops down to about 800K

wonder if that has something to do with my gated / lifeless bypass signal ?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Robert said:
This would most likely be an offboard wiring / footswitch issue.

Nothing immediately stands out in your pic, but that'd be where I'd start looking. Ensure that the switching around R28 / R29 is happening.

R28 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is in bypass, R29 should be bypassed by the footswitch when the pedal is active.

Ensure that R28 reads low (near zero) ohms and R29 measures 68K when the pedal is bypassed.

R28 should measure near 68K and R29 should be near zero when the pedal is active.
Click to expand...
OK .... just got done measuring the spots you told me to check out ....

Kliche Mini

Pedal Off : R28 = 0.2 Ohms R29 = 6.1K
Pedal On : R28 = 4.9 M R29 = 0.2 Ohms

my working Kliche OD

Pedal Off : R28 = 0.3 Ohms R29 = 32K

Pedal On : R28 = 5 M R29 = 0.3

So using my working Kliche OD as a reference .... looks like I'm low on R29 when the pedal is off ..... wonder whats causing that ?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
  • Question
Kliche Mini B10k Volume Not Muting
Replies
11
Views
477
jdduffield
J
A
Is the Kliche breakout board different to the 3pdt breakout board
Replies
2
Views
241
allsmoke
A
J
Kliche Mini w/ 3PDT Buffered Bypass Switch Breakout Board
Replies
0
Views
315
jaspinwall
J
S
  • Solved
Kliche SE sanding misadventure
Replies
7
Views
444
music6000
M
D
  • Question
Kliche Power Problem - Charge Pump/LED Oscillation
Replies
10
Views
469
ddavis20341
D
Back
Top