Kliche mini choking out bypassed signal

[griff10672]

Hey Folks ...
I've just built several kliche mini's and starting testing them .
each one I've tested so far ... 5 of them .... has the same symptoms .... they are killing my bypassed tone .
when I shut off the pedal it pretty much kills my tone .... almost sounds like a crappy OD that's on . and it doesn't sound all that great when turned on either .
for reference I have a Kliche OD ( 1590BB ) that I built a few years ago .... this pedal does not do this at all and sounds amazing . ( the parts are exactly the same other than I've used carbon comp on the mini and used metal resistors on the Kliche OD and the diodes )
I don't think it has anything to do with resistor material or the diodes ... I think it's the charge pump .
when looking at Electrosmashes breakdown of the Klon ... I noticed it was using a MAX1044 instead of a TC1044SCPA ...
I had a few Maxx's on hand and threw one in .... it almost totally fixed the issue ... when on the pedal sounds amazing ... but when off ... it's better ... but not like my Kliche OD .
Funny thing is ... I purchased a JRockett Archer used at GC that did the exact same thing ... when off ... my signal was just stunted and buzzy .... like a crappy OD pedal
I'm assuming this is a charge pump issue ? is there a way to tweak it ?? I've looked over the schematics for the mini and the Kliche OD ... they are the same as far as I can tell ... and my Kliche OD works 100% perfect

 

[griff10672]

Just for confirmation, you are using the Kliche Footswitch Breakout Board, Correct???

I've tried both ways ...... without the break out board and with .....

 

[griff10672]

First picture indicates so. There may be solder bridges under the breakout board though.

I checked for this also ...... visually and with a MM

 

[griff10672]

You can rule out the foot switch by removing it and bypassing/engaging the circuit by shorting the wires. It seems like you have some sort of short somewhere.

If a new switch doesnt fix the problem ..... I whole heartedly agree .... it's finding it thats killing me ... lol

 

[benny_profane]

If a new switch doesnt fix the problem ..... I whole heartedly agree .... it's finding it thats killing me ... lol

You can quickly check for that without a new switch. Otherwise you should focus your attention on being absolutely sure that all the parts are correct and ensuring that your soldering is solid and there are no bridges. Have you checked that there are no shorts at the dual pot?

The solder-side pictures posted are blurry, but it seems like joints could be better flowed up and the board could use a thorough cleaning.

 

[music6000]

One Tayda Footswitch maybe but 5????

 

[benny_profane]

I keep going back to the fact that the Archer is doing the same thing.

 

[griff10672]

You can quickly check for that without a new switch. Otherwise you should focus your attention on being absolutely sure that all the parts are correct and ensuring that your soldering is solid and there are no bridges. Have you checked that there are no shorts at the dual pot?

The solder-side pictures posted are blurry, but it seems like joints could be better flowed up and the board could use a thorough cleaning.

the board could definitely use a cleaning I agree ...... is flux conductive ??

I went over the board with a magnifying scope we have here at work ... all joints looked solid ....

I'm building a brand new Kliche OD and a mini today ...... using all the same parts .... I will use the same hardware also .. footswitch , jacks etc ...

each part will be measured and checked .... we'll see what happens ....

the only thing I see visually that makes me a little nervous is a spot under the charge pump right next to Pin 4 ..... I forget what they are called .... but there is a pin that connects one side of the board to the other ..... and it's super close to pin 4 .... included a pic .

 

[benny_profane]

I'm building a brand new Kliche OD and a mini today ...... using all the same parts .... I will use the same hardware also .. footswitch , jacks etc

Verify the board without external components first. Try to reduce as many variables as possible.

the only thing I see visually that makes me a little nervous is a spot under the charge pump right next to Pin 4 ..... I forget what they are called .... but there is a pin that connects one side of the board to the other ..... and it's super close to pin 4 .... included a pic .

Via. Unless you really splash a ton of solder, that shouldn't pose a risk of a short.

 

[griff10672]

One Tayda Footswitch maybe but 5????

I've got 50 of them ............... they are super cheap feeling .... they are new to them I think .... it's a light pressure switch ... all black ... figured I'd try them out ...
as much as people like to complain about Tayda ... this will be a first problem of any parts from them .... if it's the problem

but a " short somewhere " makes more sense to me in all the trouble shooting I've done ..

 

[griff10672]

Verify the board without external components first. Try to reduce as many variables as possible.

Via. Unless you really splash a ton of solder, that shouldn't pose a risk of a short.

what ever is going on ... it definitely impacts the resistance readings of R28 and R29 ...

 

[Drayve85]

Somethings fishy if the Archer is doing it too. That means it’s something that the archer has that the kliche OD DOESNT have. Now, finding that is the problem. It’s all the same circuit (well, I think the archer has stuck to the original circuit!) what does the Kliche OD have that the rest doesn’t. I could see if the Archer worked and the Pedalpcb boards didn’t. This is weird my friend!lol

 

[griff10672]

I keep going back to the fact that the Archer is doing the same thing.

I had the Archer for like 5 minutes ....... it was used from GC ..... I think it was straight up junk ...

I've done a crap ton of research on pumps , Klons and the like .... I'm not the first one having the same issue .... people have had the same problem on actual Klons ...

 

[Robert]

The bypass portion of the circuit isn't powered by the charge pump, so unless the charge pump is pulling the 9V supply low it shouldn't have any effect.

You should have a good clean bypassed signal even with the charge pump IC removed.

Also keep in mind the position of the volume pot could affect the readings of R28 / R29.

 

[phi1]

If you remove the charge pump from socket, you can jumper pin5-3, and then you should be able to test the whole circuit (bypass and effect), all working at around 9V. It’ll sound fine, maybe get into a little op amp clipping with gain and/or treble cranked, but should still sound Klon-ish

 

[griff10672]

Ok ...... so update on this issue ....

Over the last few days I built a new Kliche OD and a Kliche Mini ..... I inspected the solder joints under high light magnification after each type of component was soldered in ...
All the components are from the same batch of parts ..... all identical ....
each component was measured before being installed .... I even went as far as checking the electrolytics with a ESR meter also ...
all the diodes from the same batch measured with a Atlas Dc-55 ....

these pedals are identical twins other than PCB and enclosure .

The Kliche OD sounds absolutely amazing into my Marshall .... the bypass signal sounds great and unaltered .. works perfectly

The Kliche Mini is doing the same thing all the other mini's I just built ( 6 now ) are doing ...... destroying my bypassed tone ....

The pedal functions like it should other than that ....

and again ... showing on my scope ..... is what appears to me as to be voltage of some kind ( see earlier pic ) running over my bypass signal

I don't have enough experience with the scope to know what that really is .... or how to solve it ....

 

[griff10672]

So I had a Kliche " Boost " board I have been waiting to build ........ so I built it yesterday ... in the same manner I built these last two variations of the Kliche ...
it does the exact same thing the Kliche Mini does ..... and it also has positive DC running over the signal .....

when I remove the charge pump ...... it vanishes ....

the Kliche OD does not do this ....... and it doesn't have positive DC voltage running over the signal .....

I'm testing both circuits ( builds ) out of enclosure ....... ruling out the enclosure ....

all three builds have the same parts .... same batches ...

ONLY thing different in these builds are the PCB .........

I felt like I was starting to narrow some things down involving the charge pump and R25 and R26 .... they were testing as if they were flip flopped ...
R25 on the Kliche OD would test like R26 on the mini and vice a versa .....


more testing today .... I'm getting better with the scope ... I will hopefully have time to post some results today .

 

[griff10672]

Testing update :

Here are 2 pics from putting the circuits on my scope at the same time.... all controls cranked to full..... in bypass / off ..... with the same sine wave running into them ... scope is attached at the output jack .

The yellow signal / yellow fonts are the perfectly working Kliche OD results .

The Green signal / fonts are the Kliche Mini that was built at the same time as the OD using all the same parts measured and tested

one is the results of testing the OD showing results for Peak to Peak , Frequency , Max and Min

one is the same as of above but is green for the Kliche Mini

big standout out to me is the frequency results ..... with the OD showing 0 across the board ... and the mini has readings all over

 

[rhaas]

Sorry to hear about this issue — seems frustrating! I just built a Kliché Mini over the weekend using a TC1044SCPA and (I think) the same board version, and it doesn't have this problem. Here's a pic in case there are any visible differences compared to yours.

 

[griff10672]

Sorry to hear about this issue — seems frustrating! I just built a Kliché Mini over the weekend using a TC1044SCPA and (I think) the same board version, and it doesn't have this problem. Here's a pic in case there are any visible differences compared to yours.

I didn't use regular film caps in spots asking for electrolytics .... is that the trick ?

 

[jhaneyzz]

I didn't use regular film caps in spots asking for electrolytics .... is that the trick ?

Nope. you can use tantalums or electros as long as they are oriented correctly and have the right value.
and i've built all of my pedals using electros where specified. (lots of pedals)