My first build. Low tide. Made a mistake. Is this redeemable?

[boysenpai]

So this is my first build. I heard it was not recommended for beginners, but I've soldered my guitar electronics in the past and also, I just really wish to have Shallow Water for 5+ years and making my own was the only way I could afford it.

It went well until I started to solder chips. It came as a kit but there were no instructions as to how to solder particular components so I googled a lot with each new tier of components. Found a little bag with two chips, found their placing on the pcb, soldered them in. Cut off the residual pin tips. Then I opened next back and I noticed there were these slots and I couldn't pair them with anything. Then I realised these were slots for the chips that I already soldered straight onto the pcb and trimmed their pins.

Will the chips work when soldered straight into the pcb? Or, will the chips slide into the slot and work even with the tips of their pins trimmed? Or should I look for replacement?

 

[boysenpai]

Amazing! Great job.

Many would have given up long ago.

It's a tricky effect to dial in (especially the trimpots). I messed with mine for a few days before getting it right (after replacing a faulty transistor). Keep us posted!

I actually did give up but you guys brought me back!

 

[boysenpai]

I slowly get the hang of it. I even tried to replicate the settings from a Shallow Water demo and I got the exact sound out of it! Following the guides I managed to fine-tune the gate trim pot to where I like it but there is something that bugs me.

The pedal bites a significant chunk off of the signal. Even when I set the Mix to pure dry, it is not as loud as with the pedal switched off. When I tried to compensate with boost switch and setting the BBD trim pot up, the signal got distorted before I was able to match the two.

Is the volume drop something that can be changed? If yes, could you please further elaborate on how to achieve it? The guide above left me wanting.

 

[p_wats]

I slowly get the hang of it. I even tried to replicate the settings from a Shallow Water demo and I got the exact sound out of it! Following the guides I managed to fine-tune the gate trim pot to where I like it but there is something that bugs me.

The pedal bites a significant chunk off of the signal. Even when I set the Mix to pure dry, it is not as loud as with the pedal switched off. When I tried to compensate with boost switch and setting the BBD trim pot up, the signal got distorted before I was able to match the two.

Is the volume drop something that can be changed? If yes, could you please further elaborate on how to achieve it? The guide above left me wanting.

No volume drop on mine once I got it all set up properly.

That said, I did initially have a similar experience (able to recreate some settings that sounded right, but also a distorted signal depending) and it turned out my J201 was bad.

If I were you, I'd learn to use the audio probe and follow the signal to hear where the distortion comes in (and where the volume drops). Could be a few things, but I would look at the 2SK208 or J201.

 

[boysenpai]

No volume drop on mine once I got it all set up properly.

That said, I did initially have a similar experience (able to recreate some settings that sounded right, but also a distorted signal depending) and it turned out my J201 was bad.

If I were you, I'd learn to use the audio probe and follow the signal to hear where the distortion comes in (and where the volume drops). Could be a few things, but I would look at the 2SK208 or J201.

Could you recommend any tutorial on how to use the audio probe in such way?

 

[p_wats]

Could you recommend any tutorial on how to use the audio probe in such way?

Not sure of any tutorials, but the principle is simple enough:

• Plug a sound source into the input jack of the pedal, as you'll want hands free to move the probe around (I used to play music through my phone until I built a test rig with a tone generator and probe built in)
• Use a cable to go from the probe jack to an amp/speaker
• Connect the clip to a ground point on the circuit
• Touch the probe lead to various points on the circuit. This will act as a sort of moving output jack. Do your best to follow the signal through the layout to see where it stops/distorts

Here's the Low Tide schematic, to reference as you go along.

 

[Fama]

I slowly get the hang of it. I even tried to replicate the settings from a Shallow Water demo and I got the exact sound out of it! Following the guides I managed to fine-tune the gate trim pot to where I like it but there is something that bugs me.

The pedal bites a significant chunk off of the signal. Even when I set the Mix to pure dry, it is not as loud as with the pedal switched off. When I tried to compensate with boost switch and setting the BBD trim pot up, the signal got distorted before I was able to match the two.

Is the volume drop something that can be changed? If yes, could you please further elaborate on how to achieve it? The guide above left me wanting.

For me, even with the pad switch on, at full volume it's louder than bypass. Just to reiterate, you don't have both pad and boost enabled, right? The direction of your DIP switch doesn't matter, just look at which side says "on". I would try with both dip switches set to off first, and then just boost on if you still don't have enough volume with the volume pot at full. I also wouldn't touch the BBD trim pot after you've set it so that the pedal sounds the nicest, I don't think it has a big volume effect?

If you still can't get it to unity (as in, no volume drop) with mix and volume full and both DIP switches disabled (or with the boost switch without distortion), then I'd agree that there's something wrong.

Btw, a looper would be great for the audio probe if you have one, I can loop DI tracks through my audio interface/pedal so I can test the pedals with real DI tracks, but a looper would be a simpler way to do the same. But any audio source should work.

 

[boysenpai]

Not sure of any tutorials, but the principle is simple enough:

• Plug a sound source into the jack, as you'll want hands free to move the probe around (I used to play music through my phone until I built a test rig with a tone generator and probe built in)
• Connect the clip to a ground point on the circuit
• Touch the probe lead to various points on the circuit, doing you best to follow the signal through the layout to see where it stops/distorts

Here's the Low Tide schematic, to reference as you go along.

Okay, that looks like a real challenge but I have all the time in the world. Thank you

 

[boysenpai]

For me, even with the pad switch on, at full volume it's louder than bypass. Just to reiterate, you don't have both pad and boost enabled, right? The direction of your DIP switch doesn't matter, just look at which side says "on". I would try with both dip switches set to off first, and then just boost on if you still don't have enough volume with the volume pot at full. I also wouldn't touch the BBD trim pot after you've set it so that the pedal sounds the nicest, I don't think it has a big volume effect?

If you still can't get it to unity (as in, no volume drop) with mix and volume full and both DIP switches disabled (or with the boost switch without distortion), then I'd agree that there's something wrong.

Btw, a looper would be great for the audio probe if you have one, I can loop DI tracks through my audio interface/pedal so I can test the pedals with real DI tracks, but a looper would be a simpler way to do the same. But any audio source should work.

I also started with both dip switches off as per the tutorial. I'll give it another try before the audio probe.

I have my trusty UR22mkII and Ableton so I'll use it as a makeshift looper. Thanks for the tip!

 

[boysenpai]

So I started with the looper and BBD trim pot and I noticed it only affects the wet signal. It had absolutely zero effect on the dry. Is it how it should work?

Anyway, even when I unified the wet and dry, they were significantly less loud than the through signal with the pedal switched off.

 

[Mcknib]

Use the PDF I posted to help with probing

The best place to check signal strength is mix pot lug 3 for wet and lug 1 for dry

 

[boysenpai]

Without a meter it'll be difficult to check efficiently

The fact you get bypass but not effect could be a number of things

I personally would wait till I had a meter and set it aside for now to avoid any further damage

In the meantime if you really can't wait the next best tool would be a simple and cheap to make audio probe using one of your extra jacks, a capacitor and a couple of bits of wire

You could use a mono or stereo jack simply solder one side of a 100n to 1u film or ceramic cap to the jack tip lug

Solder a wire to the other side with something for the probe to the wire end like a piece of paperclip or something fairly robust

Solder another wire to the jack ground lug with a small clip or something to the other end for connecting to circuit ground like this

View attachment 56235

Here's a PDF explaining how to use it ignore the first 5 building one pages

audio probe explained.pdf

drive.google.com

Note this PDF was written a long time ago and could definitely be explained better but should give you a good understanding of how to use a probe to find out if audio is even getting into the circuit and if it is where it stops leading you to your problem area(s)

This is a non destructive method ie you don't need to solder / desolder anything to the circuit to check it

It's not complicated all you need to do is input an audio signal and probe components in the audio path ie the path your guitar AC signal follows through the circuit from in to out

I'm sorry but I just cant figure it out. I have a probe. I have a signal source. What do I plug to what?

I used my chase for the ground of the probe, the sent audio signal into the probe and then a cable from pedal output into the amplifier. I only got a sound when I touched the tip of my probe to the audio input/output in the pedal. Touching anything on the circuit made no sound.

Then I sent audio source into the input of the pedal, attached the ground of the probe on the chase and plugged a cable from the probe into the amplifier. Again, I only got sound when touching the pedal's input/output.

 

[boysenpai]

I'm sorry but I just cant figure it out. I have a probe. I have a signal source. What do I plug to what?

I used my chase for the ground of the probe, the sent audio signal into the probe and then a cable from pedal output into the amplifier. I only got a sound when I touched the tip of my probe to the audio input/output in the pedal. Touching anything on the circuit made no sound.

Then I sent audio source into the input of the pedal, attached the ground of the probe on the chase and plugged a cable from the probe into the amplifier. Again, I only got sound when touching the pedal's input/output.

I think I figured it out. The former is the correct way.

So what I've found out. The probe only makes sound when I touch the signal pins for input/outputs and their respective wires and I also get a sound on the footswitch, on the pins in black circle, the rest of the FS is dead and so is the board. How is that possible? The pedal seems to work fine apart from the volume drop, which is not even drastic.

 

[boysenpai]

When I fed the pedal with my adapter and engaged the pedal, some of the footswitch pin started to make a sound and those that did make sound previously then died. Guys. This is very overwhelming. I can't follow the schematics.

 

[PJS]

To use the audio probe, you feed sound into the input of the pedal. The ground clip of the audio probe clips to any ground connection on the pedal. I usually clip it to the solder lug for ground on the output jack - just to make sure it has a good firm connection that is also out of my way. The socket of your audio probe plugs into an amp/headphone amp etc using a standard guitar lead. When you touch the probe to a point on the circuit you will be able to hear if there is audio there or not, and the quality of the audio. If you are getting audio on the black circles of the footswitch that you have circled, and nowhere on the board that is totally normal - for the pedal in bypass. Just click the footswitch and you should get the audio going into the board instead.

This is not every place you could check, but a few easily identifiable places to get you going that should give a good indication

Remember that IC pin numbering goes like this:



Q1 - I think I would expect to hear audio on 2 of the pins and not the third
Q2 - same - audio on 2 pins and not the third
IC4 pin 6 and 7
IC7 pin 3, 7, 8
IC3 pin 3, 5
MIX pot - all 3 pins - the signal on the middle will vary depending on the pot position
LEVEL POT - only 2 pins will have sound - middle pin volume will vary with pot position
Q4, Q5 - again 2 pins will have sound - the third not.

 

[mdc]

For the audio probe, you want the sound source going into the pedal as it normally would. So, use an adaptor and play music off of your phone, or use a looper pedal and get a loop going, or anything really. You just want sound/voltage at a reasonable input level entering the pedal at the input jack.

The 1/4" end of your audio probe gets plugged into your amp/interface. That way, when you complete a circuit via the audio probe and your test point on the board, you'll hear sound. Imagine taking the pedal out of the equation all together - you touch the probe to the cable and hear bypass (provided ground is also connected etc).

You'll need to go methodically through the circuit and look for where the audio signal stops doing what it should be doing.

If you're getting sound on those pins with the black circles, it means the switch is in bypass. You'll need to send signal to the circuit, so press the switch and you should get clear signal on these pins of the switch and this pad of the circuit board.

 

[mdc]

The build doc is here:

https://docs.pedalpcb.com/project/LowTide-PedalPCB.pdf

You'll need to use the diagram at the front with the component numbers as a reference. For example, check both sides of C1 and both sides of C2 with the audio probe. Everything good so far? If so, cool! If not, you know you've got a problem in the first little chunk of the circuit.

 

[mdc]

If you set the mix to 100% dry and level to 100% clockwise (CW) is the signal the same on legs 1 and 2 of the mix pot and legs 2 and 3 of the level pot? Is it the same as what you're hearing on either side of R6 or on C2?

 

[mdc]

Wait, do you have 2 J201s attached? It looks like you have an SMD-type soldered on and then also a through-hole J201 in the sockets? If so, take the one out of the socket - those pads are an either/or not a both.

 

[p_wats]

Okay, that looks like a real challenge but I have all the time in the world. Thank you

Sorry! These instructions were not great. I adjusted them a bit so they are hopefully more clear. Basically the probe acts as your pedal's output, so you don't need to connect anything to the output jack.

• Connect an audio source to the pedal input
• Connect the probe clip to a ground point for the pedal (the ground on the input/output jacks should work)
• Connect the probe's jack to your amp/speaker
• Touch the probe lead to various spots on the circuit---depending on where you do this you should hear the audio you're playing coming out (you won't hear anything if you're not touching the probe to a signal portion of the pedal circuit)

Here's a video of someone using a homemade probe on their amp:

So I started with the looper and BBD trim pot and I noticed it only affects the wet signal. It had absolutely zero effect on the dry. Is it how it should work?

Anyway, even when I unified the wet and dry, they were significantly less loud than the through signal with the pedal switched off.

As for the trim pots, in the Low Tide circuit they adjust the BBD chip and gate function specifically, which are both portions of the wet signal, so you wouldn't hear a difference if your mix is set to 100% dry.

Wait, do you have 2 J201s attached? It looks like you have an SMD-type soldered on and then also a through-hole J201 in the sockets? If so, take the one out of the socket - those pads are an either/or not a both.

This was spotted a few pages back and changed (I think), so hopefully no longer an issue.

 

[JamieJ]

You have the SMD and through hole component in place for the J201. You don’t need both of those. Have you tried removing the through hole JFET to see if that changes anything?