NAD! Frenzel Deluxe Plus 525
- Thread starter MichaelW
- Start date
MichaelW
Well-known member
Well as some of you may recall I posted a few months ago about getting a Frenzel Amplification "Lil Jessie" 5 watt amp.
Frenzel has been around building amps for decades. But very few people have heard of them. They have zero marketing and it's all word of mouth.
Some very unique designs and super flexible amps with a nod to the classic circuits.
In my NAD/Demo post for the Lil Jessie I mentioned that I liked the amp so much that I was going to immediately sell it.......hahaha.
Because the day after I received the amp, I was so impressed with it that I ordered another amp from them, with more power.
This post is about that second amp. It took about 4 months for them to get it built and to me. It's actually very similar to the Lil Jessie, but just more power. Like an older sibling if you will. Same basic sonic signature.
Some of the differences:
25 watt amp via 2x 6L6s instead of 5 watts via a single EL84.
Tube rectified. Ok, I mistaken, it comes standard with a solid state rectifier with a Dual rec upgrade option.
If I had gotten that option I'd probably only be using the tube rec when I'm running it in 5E3 setting. Most of the time I'd be running it with the solid state rectifier. I do like me some sag but only for certain amps. Tweed Deluxe for instance.
One of the unique features of most of the Frenzel amps in their lineup is that they have 2 preamps. A "Fender" style preamp based on a 5E3 circuit, and a "Marshall" style preamp based on a Plexi.
Between the two preamps you can use an ABY switch to change channels or combine the two preamp channels for a lot of tonal flexibility.
I ordered mine with 2 upgrades, a tube buffered effects loop and the "High Gain" option for the "M" or Marshall channel.
In the short time I've had to mess with the amp, I can get everywhere from chimy Plexi cleans to JCM800 style overdrive on the Marshall channel.
On the "F" channel I can dial up a Blackface Deluxe style clean tone or dial up a warmer 5E3 tweed deluxe clean or push it into Tweed breakup. All tied together with a 5F6A Bassman tone stack with a presence control on the output tranny.
The fun really starts when I blend the two channels and I can get pretty wide range of clean to overdriven sounds. As a pedal platform I will most likely be using it in the blended mode the most. The tones are just heavenly.
So another really neat feature of this amp is that it has a bias selector switch to support either the stock 6L6's or EL34's for a more Marshally sound. But it's not just 6L6's and EL34's but rather any tube in that whole family of tubes. In the EL34 setting I can use EL34's, KT66's. KT77's, 6550's. In the 6L6 setting I can sub 5881's or even KT88's!
I've had a couple of email exchanges with Jim Frenzel to double/triple confirm that power tranny can support some of these larger tubes like the KT88, (KT88's would drastically increase the output power of this amp).
Anyway, being the tinkerer that I am, and with the AmplifiedParts Labor Day coupon code, I've got some tubes inbound that I'm planning to try. I have a set of Genelec Gold Lion KT77's coming and I'm tempted to try some KT88's at some point.
I'll do a proper demo of the amp once I've got the tubes thing settled and the amp has had a chance to settle in,
In the meantime, it will probably be showing up in my pedal demo's as my clean platform. Stay tuned....
Very affordably priced for a "booteek" point to point hand wired, made in the USA amp. Glorious sounding, super flexible....what more could I ask? (hmmm, maybe I need his AC15/Matchless inspired amp now......
)
But in all seriousness......this is the last amp I will be buying (snicker snicker). My next amp will be one that I build.
It came with a full complement of JJ pre and power tubes. I've already replaced V1 (F & M Preamps) and V2 (tone stack) with vintage NOS spec RCA tubes.
Frenzel has been around building amps for decades. But very few people have heard of them. They have zero marketing and it's all word of mouth.
Some very unique designs and super flexible amps with a nod to the classic circuits.
In my NAD/Demo post for the Lil Jessie I mentioned that I liked the amp so much that I was going to immediately sell it.......hahaha.
Because the day after I received the amp, I was so impressed with it that I ordered another amp from them, with more power.
This post is about that second amp. It took about 4 months for them to get it built and to me. It's actually very similar to the Lil Jessie, but just more power. Like an older sibling if you will. Same basic sonic signature.
Some of the differences:
25 watt amp via 2x 6L6s instead of 5 watts via a single EL84.
If I had gotten that option I'd probably only be using the tube rec when I'm running it in 5E3 setting. Most of the time I'd be running it with the solid state rectifier. I do like me some sag but only for certain amps. Tweed Deluxe for instance.
One of the unique features of most of the Frenzel amps in their lineup is that they have 2 preamps. A "Fender" style preamp based on a 5E3 circuit, and a "Marshall" style preamp based on a Plexi.
Between the two preamps you can use an ABY switch to change channels or combine the two preamp channels for a lot of tonal flexibility.
I ordered mine with 2 upgrades, a tube buffered effects loop and the "High Gain" option for the "M" or Marshall channel.
In the short time I've had to mess with the amp, I can get everywhere from chimy Plexi cleans to JCM800 style overdrive on the Marshall channel.
On the "F" channel I can dial up a Blackface Deluxe style clean tone or dial up a warmer 5E3 tweed deluxe clean or push it into Tweed breakup. All tied together with a 5F6A Bassman tone stack with a presence control on the output tranny.
The fun really starts when I blend the two channels and I can get pretty wide range of clean to overdriven sounds. As a pedal platform I will most likely be using it in the blended mode the most. The tones are just heavenly.
So another really neat feature of this amp is that it has a bias selector switch to support either the stock 6L6's or EL34's for a more Marshally sound. But it's not just 6L6's and EL34's but rather any tube in that whole family of tubes. In the EL34 setting I can use EL34's, KT66's. KT77's, 6550's. In the 6L6 setting I can sub 5881's or even KT88's!
I've had a couple of email exchanges with Jim Frenzel to double/triple confirm that power tranny can support some of these larger tubes like the KT88, (KT88's would drastically increase the output power of this amp).
Anyway, being the tinkerer that I am, and with the AmplifiedParts Labor Day coupon code, I've got some tubes inbound that I'm planning to try. I have a set of Genelec Gold Lion KT77's coming and I'm tempted to try some KT88's at some point.
I'll do a proper demo of the amp once I've got the tubes thing settled and the amp has had a chance to settle in,
In the meantime, it will probably be showing up in my pedal demo's as my clean platform. Stay tuned....
Very affordably priced for a "booteek" point to point hand wired, made in the USA amp. Glorious sounding, super flexible....what more could I ask? (hmmm, maybe I need his AC15/Matchless inspired amp now......
)But in all seriousness......this is the last amp I will be buying (snicker snicker). My next amp will be one that I build.
It came with a full complement of JJ pre and power tubes. I've already replaced V1 (F & M Preamps) and V2 (tone stack) with vintage NOS spec RCA tubes.
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steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
So youre saying this does Fender sounds and Marshall sounds too?
Every time i think im set on what kind of amp to build or get something else comes and grabs my attention....
Every time i think im set on what kind of amp to build or get something else comes and grabs my attention....
MichaelW
Well-known member
Well it's not that simple. It has Fender and Marshall pre-amps, but a Fender Princeton or Deluxe is more than just a pre-amp. The sounds you get from them are a sum of their constituent parts INCLUDING the preamp. But it's also effected by output tubes, tone stack and circuit.
Kinda like saying any 3 knob pedal with asymmetrical diode clipping will sound like a TS808.
These amps can deliver a Fender "flavored" sound as well as a Marshall "flavored" sound. In the same way the Paragon, King's Hand, Pot & Kettle, Pauper, will all deliver a BluesBreaker pedal "flavored" sound but none of them sound "just like an MBB".
Stay tuned for the demo and I'll show you. Or check out the demo linked above from my other Frenzel amp.
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
Ahhh I got it. To be honest i think anything that doesnt sound like a blues jr is good for me...
Im definitely looking forward to that demo.
Harry Klippton
Not Interested
You were so excited to get that blues jr too
Alan W
Well-known member
Congratulations! Over the years I’ve been attracted to various amps that have a similar output tube flexibility, but the notion of parallel preamps, where you can combine the two channels sounds is pretty delightful!
Where’s the rectifier tube? Does the M side gain just keep going, or is there a specific high gain switch?
Is your Avatar speaker cabinet open or closed back? I foresee some future options arriving
.
so far, I’ve only tried their 5AR4 rectifier, which has truly impressed me, but I know Psvane makes some of the KT variants, and if my rectifier is any sample of what they’re doing, you should look into them. I still have some NOS GE rectifiers, for one of my stereo amps, that I tried in my Allen, when I suspected a bad rectifier and didn’t have any spares. Was blown away both by the improvement over the original, and my shock at finding out what NOS GE 5AR4s sell for now! So I decided to try the Psvane, and it really delivers!
Again, congratulations!
Where’s the rectifier tube? Does the M side gain just keep going, or is there a specific high gain switch?
Is your Avatar speaker cabinet open or closed back? I foresee some future options arriving
.so far, I’ve only tried their 5AR4 rectifier, which has truly impressed me, but I know Psvane makes some of the KT variants, and if my rectifier is any sample of what they’re doing, you should look into them. I still have some NOS GE rectifiers, for one of my stereo amps, that I tried in my Allen, when I suspected a bad rectifier and didn’t have any spares. Was blown away both by the improvement over the original, and my shock at finding out what NOS GE 5AR4s sell for now! So I decided to try the Psvane, and it really delivers!
Again, congratulations!
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
Dude it lasted for a good year but damn everything sounds the same to me. Then let’s talk about adding some “flavor” from the amp….there is none…at this point I’m real bored of it. I outgrew it plain and simple.
Coda
Well-known member
My approach is that the amp is there to make what I put into it loud. I recall something a former professor and now colleague said to me this past Spring. He was talking about teaching Freshmen, though you could apply it to teaching, and other things, in general: “If you put shit in, shit comes out.” Makes sure what you are putting in has the flavor already. The oven adds temperature, not spice…
Of course, a few minutes later my colleague followed up with this one: “you can’t put in what god left out…”
Guardians of the analog
Papi Fuego
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
Very true. I’m expecting the amp to give me sounds it’s never going to give me. I’ve been using the same guitar too this whole time.
My thing is I want an amp with a little more uniqueness I guess. Plus I personally think, it would be cool to hear how different pedals would react with an amp that’s voiced differently.
Idk if I’ll get rid of it because I do like it. I’m just a little over it at the moment. I’ve never played through another tube amp other than the blues jr and curiosity is getting the better of me. I think exploring different amps has its benefits, after all I’m a firm believer that that’s the main thing that will influence the end sound. Im under the impression any pedal can make an amp sound good or bad, of course that’s my opinion but I also think it’s up to the user to make it work as well.
I’m really looking forward to the Frenzel demo it might just be what I’m looking for…
Alan W
Well-known member
Or maybe a fairly neutral amp, that has the ability to morph depending on what is put into it? It seems to me that amps with more specific qualities are great when you have a few to chose from, to help shape the sound even more, but that as a solo amp, you’d want something that is as flexible as possible. (Well, I do suppose when you take this into the zone of changeable power tubes and mu able preamp sections, you’re entering the uniqueness zone. Que Rod Sterling…)
steviejr92
Authorized Vendor
I feel like the blues jr fits that category so well. Its a neutral amp. I want to keep the neutrality of the blues jr but when needed dial it to 11 if you know what I’m saying lol
I’ve never looked into this but what tubes what sound great other than the stock ones in the blues jr?
MichaelW
Well-known member
You know what, that's a darn good question. I wonder if my adding the Tube EFX loop option necessitated them going with the solid state rectifier? V1-4 is V1-Preamps, V2 Tone stack driver, V3A-Efx loop. V3 - Phase inverter. There's no V4 on my amp which is where the 5AR4 would go. But that doesn't make much sense either, there's also a tube driven tremolo option. I'm gonna shoot them an email and find out.
It's a partial open back with a Hellatone 30 in it. Basically Avatar takes a UK made Celestion G12H30 and breaks it in, slaps a Hellatone label on it.Is your Avatar speaker cabinet open or closed back? I foresee some future options arriving
It works for some amps and not so much for others. It did NOT sound great with my other Frenzel amp. I haven't tried yet with the new one.
I'm actually toying with the idea of throwing a 65 watt Creamback in it. I've just really fallen in love lately with the 65 and 75 watt Creambacks.
Especially a 2x12 with one cream back and one V30. The Pete Thorn Suhr Signature 2x12 amp has this configuration as well as one of the Zilla cabs. But I so very rarely play through the cab it's not a high priority. I use both the Suhr 2x12 and Zilla 2x12 cab IR's extensively.
I currently have a set of JJ KT77's in there. They've been cooking all day since about 9am. They sound REALLY good. They kinda fall between a 6L6 and an EL34 with characteristics of both. The smooth mids and top end chime of the EL34 and the bloom of the 6L6.
I can't wait to try the Genelec Gold Lions. They seem to be very well reviewed and generally regarded as the "best" production KT77 by both the guitar as well as the hifi crowd. They're supposed to arrive Saturday. This set of JJ's will either be backups or go into the VHT amp.
Depends on whether I like that amp better with the EL34's or the 77's.
Alan W
Well-known member
It’s been years since I played through a friends Blues Jr., and I remember liking it quite a bit—but I don’t think it’s neutral. In terms of overall tonality, yes. But the EL84 amps I know (and I’ve owned one for about 20 years now) seem to have a pretty distinct sound, in terms of what the cleans sound like (“chimey” is the usual term), and how it reacts to stronger signals. It’s a sound I love, especially with P90s.
I don’t know much about how different companies’ EL84 vary, so can’t help you much there. You could try changing your V1 preamp tube, to something with a bit less gain, that I think will give you a bit more clean headroom. A 5751 would be just a bit less gain, and they’re typically a good bit quieter than 12AX7s. A 12AT7 is also a common substitute for V1.
The other option is changing the speaker, and I’d recommend plugging in other cabinets and seeing what happens, if you have friends that are willing to experiment with you. Considering how expensive NOS tubes are getting, a speaker trade might be less expensive. (Not that I’m suggesting you go with NOS tubes for these tryouts.) A more efficient speaker would play louder with less strain on the amp, for instance. Or a British style speaker would plump the mids a bit more.
I‘m pretty sure the solid state rectifier is not a chargeable part (without surgery) on the Blues Jr. This would be one more area of potential experimentation. But I think that’s not really doable, and I don’t know if more sag would help matters anyway. (My EL84 amp is also solid state rectified, but there is a tight and loose switch on it. It pretty much has stayed on tight for me.)
Harry Klippton
Not Interested
MichaelW
Well-known member
Ok, I was mistaken. Frenzel got back to me, all their amps come standard with the solid state rectifier unless you do the Dual Rec upgrade, which I didn't do.
If I had gotten that option I'd probably only be using the tube rec when I'm running it in 5E3 setting. Most of the time I'd be running it with the solid state rectifier. I do like me some sag but only for certain amps. Tweed Deluxe for instance.
