That's a handling fee by DHL/Deutsche Post and doesn't really have anything to do with that. VAT and import taxes have always been due, it's just that these two decided "We're not doing that for free anymore". You can still pick up your own stuff from customs without additional fees other than import duties. Just need to register with Deutsche Post as "Selbstverzoller".
New Euro safety regulations for electronics start tomorrow
- Thread starter Passinwind
- Start date
Robert
Reverse Engineer
Their expectations are unrealistic. They want us to collect taxes and manually submit them to each location (city / province / etc) separately.
This would involve manually researching each order to determine which location needs to receive their share of the taxes. (And some will fall into multiple which needs to be divided proportionally).
There isn't enough time in the day for such things.
There are third party services that will take care of all of the paperwork for you but it would increase the cost of each order far beyond $6.
szukalski
Well-known member
Yeah, I totally appreciate it. If I imagine a perfect scenario with tools which did the heavy lifting, it’s still seeming like a “oh god fuck no” experience. And we’re far away from that.
So much inefficiency to be tackled.
Robert
Reverse Engineer
What prevents the nefarious sellers from just declaring these dangerous electronics as something that is excluded from the regulations?
Most of the stuff I receive from China is declared as something completely random anyway.
It seems like legit sellers will be the ones impacted the most.
Most of the stuff I receive from China is declared as something completely random anyway.
It seems like legit sellers will be the ones impacted the most.
Fama
Well-known member
I would assume that's why there's the part about marketplaces, the electronics from China probably mostly come from Temu, Aliexpress, Amazon and Ebay and such. So if the stuff coming from those marketplaces will be breaking the regulations, then they can issue penalties on the marketplaces, which should force the marketplaces to keep the sellers in check and not just declare any random stuff in customs.
darwin999
Well-known member
OK, I'll be the punching bag here, but I believe the policy is at least well-intended and I can see why it was introduced. Maybe the implementation has flaws, I totally can get that, but the reason that the regulation was introduced is likely quite valid. And here's why. If they allow cheap and dangerous electronic products into the EU, then it will put economic pressure on EU manufacturers to also make their products cheaper and less safe. And then it becomes a race to the bottom where we all lose. (And note I haven't mentioned anything about EU manufacturing job losses, or anything like that.)
Example: I honestly can't tell you how many times in the last 10 years I've read of some cheap rechargeable battery &/or battery charger causing a fire that killed people in NY City. Usually the dead include young children and senior citizens. I live in New Jersey and tend to read international over local news, yet I still will read about yet another fire every few weeks. Electric bikes, cheap digital electronics - you name it. Easily 100s of deaths in one metropolitan area alone, plus a ton of fire & smoke damage to people's homes and property. And the fire could start in your neighbor's apartment or home, yet your child or your elderly parent may well be the one who dies. It's just nuts, and it is scary because (if you really sit down and count) we all have ~50-100 electronic widgets and appliances plugged in throughout our homes.
And because the governments know which importers they are most concerned about, plus they appreciate the costs of enforcing the policy, they likely also know what segments of the supply chain they will focus on. E.g., I seriously doubt they worry about PCBs from @Robert since (a) it's coming from the US, and (b) he's a small % of the overall production (i.e., relative to some known large manufacturer of ultralow-cost products, perhaps in Asia). That @Robert hasn't seen a single shipment lost or returned from earlier policy pronouncements confirms this. Basically, it's the same reason why I get waived by at customs when returning to the US from Iceland, versus if I was on a flight from Columbia.
So I get the frustration here, but let's at least be aware of the real issue here. And, usually governments monitor and adjust the enforcement proportionate to the underlying risks.
OK, now I'll hunker down and get ready to get zinged.
Example: I honestly can't tell you how many times in the last 10 years I've read of some cheap rechargeable battery &/or battery charger causing a fire that killed people in NY City. Usually the dead include young children and senior citizens. I live in New Jersey and tend to read international over local news, yet I still will read about yet another fire every few weeks. Electric bikes, cheap digital electronics - you name it. Easily 100s of deaths in one metropolitan area alone, plus a ton of fire & smoke damage to people's homes and property. And the fire could start in your neighbor's apartment or home, yet your child or your elderly parent may well be the one who dies. It's just nuts, and it is scary because (if you really sit down and count) we all have ~50-100 electronic widgets and appliances plugged in throughout our homes.
And because the governments know which importers they are most concerned about, plus they appreciate the costs of enforcing the policy, they likely also know what segments of the supply chain they will focus on. E.g., I seriously doubt they worry about PCBs from @Robert since (a) it's coming from the US, and (b) he's a small % of the overall production (i.e., relative to some known large manufacturer of ultralow-cost products, perhaps in Asia). That @Robert hasn't seen a single shipment lost or returned from earlier policy pronouncements confirms this. Basically, it's the same reason why I get waived by at customs when returning to the US from Iceland, versus if I was on a flight from Columbia.
So I get the frustration here, but let's at least be aware of the real issue here. And, usually governments monitor and adjust the enforcement proportionate to the underlying risks.
OK, now I'll hunker down and get ready to get zinged.
andare
Well-known member
Nah you're right.OK, I'll be the punching bag here, but I believe the policy is at least well-intended and I can see why it was introduced. Maybe the implementation has flaws, I totally can get that, but the reason that the regulation was introduced is likely quite valid. And here's why. If they allow cheap and dangerous electronic products into the EU, then it will put economic pressure on EU manufacturers to also make their products cheaper and less safe. And then it becomes a race to the bottom where we all lose. (And note I haven't mentioned anything about EU manufacturing job losses, or anything like that.)
Example: I honestly can't tell you how many times in the last 10 years I've read of some cheap rechargeable battery &/or battery charger causing a fire that killed people in NY City. Usually the dead include young children and senior citizens. I live in New Jersey and tend to read international over local news, yet I still will read about yet another fire every few weeks. Electric bikes, cheap digital electronics - you name it. Easily 100s of deaths in one metropolitan area alone, plus a ton of fire & smoke damage to people's homes and property. And the fire could start in your neighbor's apartment or home, yet your child or your elderly parent may well be the one who dies. It's just nuts, and it is scary because (if you really sit down and count) we all have ~50-100 electronic widgets and appliances plugged in throughout our homes.
And because the governments know which importers they are most concerned about, plus they appreciate the costs of enforcing the policy, they likely also know what segments of the supply chain they will focus on. E.g., I seriously doubt they worry about PCBs from @Robert since (a) it's coming from the US, and (b) he's a small % of the overall production (i.e., relative to some known large manufacturer of ultralow-cost products, perhaps in Asia). That @Robert hasn't seen a single shipment lost or returned from earlier policy pronouncements confirms this. Basically, it's the same reason why I get waived by at customs when returning to the US from Iceland, versus if I was on a flight from Columbia.
So I get the frustration here, but let's at least be aware of the real issue here. And, usually governments monitor and adjust the enforcement proportionate to the underlying risks.
OK, now I'll hunker down and get ready to get zinged.
In the EU we already have issues with our own manufacturers not following rules but we also have a ton of crap coming in. For example in Italy the police always confiscate fireworks around New year's because they don't follow regulations. They always come from China. We already have people losing limbs to fireworks in places like Naples where they don't mess around and shoot atomic missiles into the air, we don't need even more dangerous items hitting the market.
Toys manufactured with toxic plastic are another item that regularly gets confiscated. You don;t want kids putting that in their mouth.
The EU already bans certain foods from the US because they don't pass our regulations against additives. I believe Subway bread isn't even considered bread in Ireland!
I bought a handmade tube amp - based on a Princeton but 30W w/a 12" speaker, blackface/tweed switch, master volume - from a local guy here in Krakow. He built the cabinet, tolexed it and hand wired all the components on turret board. The works. He came to my place, I played it for 10 secondsm it sounded amazing so I bought it on the spot. Transfered him the equivalent of 500 Euros and he was gone. Deal of the century.
No safety documentation changed hands. No receipt either. No taxes paid.
The thing could have exploded in my face for all I know.
If something happens at least I can name the guy and find where he lives. I have the guy's email and website.
Would I buy the same amp from someone outside the EU with no certification, safety docs, address etc? I doubt I'd buy it directly from the builder, I'd go through a store with a physical location and liability.
Having said that, I hope I can buy a tube pedal from @vigilante398 one day - I know that's not gonna blow up in my face
vigilante398
Authorized Vendor
I just shipped a few pedals to various parts of Europe today, we'll see what happens to them. I'm not opposed to regulation, I get it. I understand that guitar pedals aren't the main target of the regulations, I have never made a pedal that (to my knowledge) has injured anyone, and I try to be easy to contact in case something goes wrong, with the obvious hope that nothing ever does.Having said that, I hope I can buy a tube pedal from @vigilante398 one day - I know that's not gonna blow up in my face
PedalBuilder
Well-known member
Definitely off topic, but I'd love to see pics! That sounds like an amazing amp.
andare
Well-known member
Here it is on the builder's page
Jakub Sus - Handmade Tube Guitar Amps - Classictone Brown
30 Watts vintage style tweed combo guitar amplifier with spring reverb , 3 band EQ , clean and drive modes. Pre-amp circuit based on classic 50/60s guitar tube schematics creates uniqe tone experience specific to these years, while 2 6L6s in power section drives the speaker producing full tone
sites.google.com
Fama
Well-known member
Kinda offtopic, but it blows my mind that there are 1200€ tube amps on sale on Aliexpress. Don't get me wrong, I get a lot of small stuff from there, but it's always priced on a level where it's not a disaster if it doesn't work. But something like that? I would never take such a huge gamble.
I'm located in Germany and at least there don't appear to be any issues importing PCBs, because I just picked some up from the customs office. I asked the customs officer about the new regulations and he kind of brushed it off and said I shouldn't worry about it. Don't know about actual consumer products though like ready-made pedals, but I'm guessing even with those the customs officers have some leeway - at least that's what he seemed to allude to without being very specific.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
Large corporations are very inefficient compared to small businesses. And they hate small businesses. So they donate to politicians that will enact regulations making it hard for small businesses. This is what is killing small business in CA.
Back in the late 90's I was in a board of directors meeting, the numbers tossed about were: when a corporation hits 100 million a year in sales it takes 3 times as many employees to handle the load. That's probably 200 million by now due to inflation.
Back in the late 90's I was in a board of directors meeting, the numbers tossed about were: when a corporation hits 100 million a year in sales it takes 3 times as many employees to handle the load. That's probably 200 million by now due to inflation.
darwin999
Well-known member
Hmm, that was not my experience. And it goes head up against the economies of scale that a large corporation requires in order to survive today. Before I retired, I worked at 2 corporations that made internet/comm/telecom infrastructure (1 large, 1 mid-size) and they were both well run, pretty damn lean & efficient, had many 1000s of workers w/ revenue just shy of $1m/employee, and gross margins of ~60%. And both were engaged in very fast-moving technologies.
RetiredUnit1
Well-known member
I've worked for companies that made 10M, 30M a year, 50M a year all the way up to companies that made a billion a year. Trust me, the more they make, the more people they have to hire, the harder it is to manage and keep it lean and mean. As a computer programmer/consultant/business expert I worked for over 100 companies near the end of my career.
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