I'm very confused about the entire point of this discussion. I'm not entirely convinced there's an understanding of how Ge diodes are used in circuits and what specifications, characteristics, or parameters are important for design considerations. It's impossible to look at a datasheet and say categorically that one device is "better" than any other. If that were the case, there would be one diode for every application because it was the best. Since there has been no practical application (at least that we know of), I'm having trouble finding an evidence base for these statements.
I'm taken aback by the assertions that this is all motivated by love of the devices and their untapped potential. How do you know that? They seem to have little to no use in your primary business and it doesn't seem like you have much, if any, experience with pedal-building. Out of the gate you said that pedals were the one field keeping Ge relevant. Ignorance to fundamental aspects of these devices (e.g., leakage current) undermine the statements attesting to the advantage of them. You've also characterized retail pedals (and DIY builds) as being boring because they use DO-7 glass case Ge diodes. It rather belies your arguments about the inherent advantages of the devices when you point at the aesthetics as a germane--and important--element of consideration.
Most people here are hobbyists that build for themselves. Many have grown tired of hyperbolic ad-speak that proclaims magic qualities to a circuit's components. Some like to paint by numbers, others like to tear things apart and see how they work, and others still like to build new things with knowledge they've gained while in this space. Many guitar pedals do things well outside the intended designs of the parts used. If you study audio processing or analog design, there will not be modules discussing how to create fuzz, distortion, and overdrive. Guitar pedal circuit designers exploit parts to achieve certain sounds. Just because a part was engineers to handle going to space doesn't mean that any additional benefit will be imparted to a guitar pedal--even if it is objectively a better engineered device.
This is an aside and maybe petty, but your economic analysis is bananas.
I don't want to bore, with a redundant rehash of everything pedalbuilder wrote, I know where he is coming from and I don't want to "be a hyperbolic asshole" like you guys think I may be. ((Which seems to be mostly what you are saying as well.))
So let me repeat the crux of things ... so that you guys can see that I understand what you're saying:
- You are saying that it's not about necessarily saving $15 in your Build – – it's more that you are 100% sure that the $.34 diode ( assuming you can actually get the non-fake ones, otherwise it's may be more like $1-$5 anyway)
- Maybe this isn't your statement, but it was someone else's up above,l, that you are 100% certain, that there is "no interest" that the cheap diodes sound better and are perfect for your applications, and that there couldn't possibly be anything else better, or even different, to be worthwhile spending a couple of extra bucks on. Anytime you say 100%, , this is a red flag, and in and of itself, a hyperbolic statement, and really puts you at risk of being wrong to some degree. (I hope somewhere in this unintentional debate, I didn't say that glass seals were 100% sucky. If I did ... I didn't mean that.)
- I really hate to harp on this – – but "the saying don't knock it till you try it" is popular for a reason. I really don't think you can generalize unless you have literally been out pulling frome vintage from equipment like I have been for decades. And for the record I didn't personally clip these out of circuit – – some WE dude did a long time ago because he thought they were "of value". Maybe that means something.
I believe the statement of that there is "no interest "has already been slightly proven wrong. I've had a couple of folks on here indicate they might like some samples to experiment. I'm going to do some leakage testing and send them some soon.
I'm not expecting people to rave about these or to say that they are the moon and stars necessarily. Especially considering the nature of diodes. However, I would still like someone to take a look at the blow apart diagram of the build and tell me these aren't substantially beefier/higher quality than a cheaper IN34.
I'm sorry you'll have to elaborate a little bit on your comment that my economics talk is bananas.
If you are talking about my comments about the cost of diodes, , then I would beg to differ. Basically, you guys are saying that a 30-cent roll of toilet paper is going to scratch your butt no more than a $1 roll of toilet paper; that just isn't true. I'm sorry, that's just counter to the fundamental nature of the universe.
If you guys can show me that cheap stuff is fundamentally better than more expensive stuff like even 60 or 70% of the time, then please do.
Saving money is a fine concept. You just have to be realistic about it.
It costs more to make a quality item, more materials, more labor, more guarantees, and more quality control. The only thing that changes that fundamental, is the hedonic treadmill, which is the idea that things improve every time (ie all cars now have power windows) . That's true to some extent but generally doesn't apply to labor or raw materials.
Rather I believe the point you guys are trying to make is that the laws of physics (or $ to value) as it were – – don't exactly apply to pedal building. Which believe it or not I completely understand!!
Believe it or not I often recommend to customers that they buy the $15 AB carbon comp pot instead of the $300 stepped Daven attenuator. I actually hate selling those because I don't think they're always a good value for for the overall sound.
It's true I don't build pedals – where gravity may not apply – but that doesn't mean I don't have a somewhat fundamental understanding of what has been useful to people over the years in vintage audio. I don't mean to scare you with a notion that paying more for something might get you something. But that is a very common occurrence in life. You've got to admit.
