TS-50 from AionFX passes signal, but NOISY!

[Mr. Strypes]

Alright, my seriously smart friends. I need help. I decided to try something different. This TS-50 pedal from AionFX looks promising and unique. It incorporates three inductors and a DC converter. I finished the build and it passes signal both in bypass and active, but it's NOISY! There's a decent amount of static in bypass, and a ton when active. The static is exacerbated by increasing gain and/or treble.
I tried a different op amp with no success. I checked my solder points for bridges, blobs, and cold joints, and couldn't find any. I reinforced the soldering around the legs of the pots, since I've had that issue a couple of times in the past.
Oh! And the LED only lights dimly. I thought that was strange, for sure. (I thought it might have burned out at one point while I was troubleshooting, so I pulled it, which is why it's not in the pictures.)
Suggestions?

 

[Nostradoomus]

A lot of your joints are cold. I know you said you checked for blobs but you may want to check again. Sounds like a bad joint somewhere in the power rail/ground.

EDIT: Check C25/26 out especially, it looks like they may be bridged.

 

[Mr. Strypes]

A lot of your joints are cold. I know you said you checked for blobs but you may want to check again. Sounds like a bad joint somewhere in the power rail/ground.

EDIT: Check C25/26 out especially, it looks like they may be bridged.

Thanks, bro. I put a new tip on my soldering iron and went over everything again with a fine-toothed comb. I resoldered anything that looked even slightly suspicious, cleaned up blobs, and reinforced a few places. I made sure nothing was bridged, including C25/26. Then I checked again. I'm still getting the same noise, unfortunately. I tried it with my Hum-X (hum remover), which helped a little, but it's still noisy.
Is there any spot in particular that still looks like a cold joint? Or could it.be something else?
Thanks again for the help!

 

[Nostradoomus]

getting better, the pads for C25/26 have too much solder on them still. Try removing some and redoing them. Those are blobs and look real dull, should be nice and shiny. Footswitch pads look sus too. Give your board a good cleaning with iso alcohol and take more pics. It's hard to see with all the residue.

 

[Mr. Strypes]

getting better, the pads for C25/26 have too much solder on them still. Try removing some and redoing them. Those are blobs and look real dull, should be nice and shiny. Footswitch pads look sus too. Give your board a good cleaning with iso alcohol and take more pics. It's hard to see with all the residue.

Here are some new pics. Same noise, but it's cleaner.

 

[swelchy]

I agree that your solder is still needing some love... it looks cold and not flowing well..... could be what solder your using, iron and time in time out but they appear to not be flowing through both sides of the board well.... overall very dull and not penetrating..

 

[Nic]

Footswitch still looks like it has cold joints, and some of the dc/dc converter too, I see at least one blob there. It should look like a cone. There is also one just right of the footswitch (left in the last pics... LDR ?) that looks suspicions to me.

 

[Mr. Strypes]

I agree that your solder is still needing some love... it looks cold and not flowing well..... could be what solder your using, iron and time in time out but they appear to not be flowing through both sides of the board well.... overall very dull and not penetrating..

Does this solder look okay? I've used it on around 200 projects with no issues before this one. Also, I've always run my soldering iron at 775°, based on a message I saw in a forum a couple years ago. But I've been wondering if that's too hot.
...
E ENERSYSTEC Lead Free Solder... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KT5P3N8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[HamishR]

AHA! Lead-free solder. Could well be the culprit right there. Unfortunately the toxic solution is usually better. You're running at 775 degrees - fahrenheit I assume? That's quite hot but I don't use lead-free so that might be ok. I usually run at 375C for 60/40.

 

[Robert]

Is this the one that required some special star wiring scheme to reduce noise?

EDIT: No, looks like that was the IVP.

 

[eh là bas ma]

Is there any spot in particular that still looks like a cold joint? Or could it.be something else?

I built this effect, it's not supposed to be noisy, although there is some usual gain background noise when Gain is set on high values, especialy if the Boost switch is engaged.

I think i still see some suspicious joints. Here are a few examples : RED = the solder isn't filling the soldering pad. GREEN = too much solder, which can create a bad connection.


You can check the connections with your multimeter on continuity mode, follow the schematics and see if the components legs are connected as they should be. Same for shorts : if you have a doubt, make sure the parts aren't touching each other with the multimeter.

It's a great circuit with very effective and interesting EQ controls, and the gain texture is singular and impressive. It's worth the time and effort to debugg it.

I think you can improve your soldering by setting the parts legs as vertical as possible. Heat the component's leg and the soldering pad simultaneously for one second or two. Then add some solder until it fills the soldering pad. Remove the soldering iron by moving it upward, along the component's leg. It should take 4 or 5 seconds per pads. If you need more time, let it cool off. You don't want to overheat the pcb. And clean your soldering tip on some dry sponge when it gets dirty, i'd say every 5 or 6 soldering pads, or so.

For example, at C25 one leg is bent toward the pcb, that leg could touch a trace on the pcb that is not supposed to be in contact with C25.
I would try to set C25 legs as vertical as possible to avoid any chance of shorts with a close trace. Same with every legs that are bent on the pcb like at C25.

Once you are confident in your soldering, if the circuit is still noisy with low gain and boost switch off, you can post voltages from the IC and the transistors, so we can check if they are allright.

The status led should be lit as usual, even with a 10k resistor, so i would check the voltages here. You should have 9V on one end of the resistor near the status led.

 

[jwin615]

Amazon Link says the melting point of your solder is 419F. I'd dial back to 650F-ish at most. You very well may be burning up your flux before you get a good flow. This is assuming your iron is accurate. Also, solder does age, specifically the rosin core. I'm nearing that point with my current roll of kester. If you are 200 projects in, I'm assuming you've had that roll for some time. Kester warranties their solder for 3 years. I'm probably approaching 6-7 years on mine and just noticing the change. That being said, the wetting went down hill pretty quick. I don't know how conditions alter the aging process of solder but I'm guessing humidity plays some roll.
I'm sure someone here would be happy to send you a couple of feet of fresh solder in a PWE 5o try out.
On another note, what does your tip look like and how old is it? Running that hot is going to be rough on a tip unless your station has an auto off feature. Heater cartridge may need a checkup as well. You could have your iron set to 750 and only be getting 450 to the pad if everything isn't up to snuff.

 

[comradehoser]

Also built this to a functional, non-noisy level, but I'd like Monsieur Alabama to send me some audio clips, because mine was pretty underwhelming. I'm planning a future teardown and intensive troubleshoot, but I suspect it's another case of "the pedal just sounds like this."

Static and weird behavior I've gotten with poorly soldered transistors (SMD in particular), but also with poorly soldered off board joints--anything to and from the outer columns of the footswitch and the in and out jacks.

 

[eh là bas ma]

I'd like Monsieur Alabama to send me some audio clips,

Wait... i just realized this troubleshooting thread is about the TS-50 guitar version... I built the Bass version and according to the build doc, they are different although they look the same.


So i can't say if the guitar version is good or "underwhelming".... The bass version is great, though.

 

[comradehoser]

Yeah, I built the bass version and also didn't realize this was the guitar version

 

[eh là bas ma]

send me some audio clips

https://soundcloud.com/ehlabas-ma-chaussure%2Fts-50b-compared

made with an RC-3.
Here the TS-50B is compared with 2 other amazing bass circuits, so we can feel the difference between TS-50B and a famous bass OD (original darkglass BK3, both switches engaged, blend and drive at noon, highs at 2' ) and a bass OD with real tubes (Sushi Box 's Bass Dude).

The TS-50B gain is set on max value (not the other ODs), Mids at 2 o'clock, Bass at mid rotation, Highs around 9'. The clean loop is played with a mediator (first half) and with bare fingers (second half). No compressor, nothing but the bass circuits mentioned.
T50's boost control changes the gain ratio of the first gain stage* and "tweaks slightly" the EQ, according to the instructions.

*i guess it's a TL71, 2nd stage is Q1 MPSA18, and last gain stage is formed by the 6 other 2N3906, the legendary tri-comp network.

Are you still saying it sounds "underwhelming" ? It's not supposed to sound perfect, it's supposed to grind... It probably sounds at its best when connected directly to the speaker, bypassing the preamp section of a bass amplifier. Lot of the sound's texture is also shaped by the speaker, it's not the circuit by itself that only matters.
So it's hard to really know if a circuit sounds good or bad, unless we can experiment with various combinations.

Conclusion : connected to an other activated preamp circuit, the TS-50 may or may not "grind" in a good way, not the most interesting circuit to play with earphones, for example ?

 

[Mr. Strypes]

AHA! Lead-free solder. Could well be the culprit right there. Unfortunately the toxic solution is usually better. You're running at 775 degrees - fahrenheit I assume? That's quite hot but I don't use lead-free so that might be ok. I usually run at 375C for 60/40.

Thanks, friend! I reduced the temp to 700° this week, just in case I've been running it too hot for a year or so and I've had success. I haven't returned to the TS-50 build.
As far as solder goes, I've been nervous to try solder with lead in it, and (for the most part) I've had success with lead-free. If I have issues in the future, I MIGHT try the toxic stuff. LOL!
I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Mr. Strypes]

I built this effect, it's not supposed to be noisy, although there is some usual gain background noise when Gain is set on high values, especialy if the Boost switch is engaged.

I think i still see some suspicious joints. Here are a few examples : RED = the solder isn't filling the soldering pad. GREEN = too much solder, which can create a bad connection.
View attachment 84931

You can check the connections with your multimeter on continuity mode, follow the schematics and see if the components legs are connected as they should be. Same for shorts : if you have a doubt, make sure the parts aren't touching each other with the multimeter.
View attachment 84932
It's a great circuit with very effective and interesting EQ controls, and the gain texture is singular and impressive. It's worth the time and effort to debugg it.

I think you can improve your soldering by setting the parts legs as vertical as possible. Heat the component's leg and the soldering pad simultaneously for one second or two. Then add some solder until it fills the soldering pad. Remove the soldering iron by moving it upward, along the component's leg. It should take 4 or 5 seconds per pads. If you need more time, let it cool off. You don't want to overheat the pcb. And clean your soldering tip on some dry sponge when it gets dirty, i'd say every 5 or 6 soldering pads, or so.

For example, at C25 one leg is bent toward the pcb, that leg could touch a trace on the pcb that is not supposed to be in contact with C25.
I would try to set C25 legs as vertical as possible to avoid any chance of shorts with a close trace. Same with every legs that are bent on the pcb like at C25.

Once you are confident in your soldering, if the circuit is still noisy with low gain and boost switch off, you can post voltages from the IC and the transistors, so we can check if they are allright.

The status led should be lit as usual, even with a 10k resistor, so i would check the voltages here. You should have 9V on one end of the resistor near the status led.

Wow! GREAT info! Thanks! I'll go back and touch up those areas tomorrow morning and see if that goes the trick. Man, I really appreciate all that you put into that response! (I'm a little blown away by your kindness and generosity in being so thorough.)

 

[Mr. Strypes]

Amazon Link says the melting point of your solder is 419F. I'd dial back to 650F-ish at most. You very well may be burning up your flux before you get a good flow. This is assuming your iron is accurate. Also, solder does age, specifically the rosin core. I'm nearing that point with my current roll of kester. If you are 200 projects in, I'm assuming you've had that roll for some time. Kester warranties their solder for 3 years. I'm probably approaching 6-7 years on mine and just noticing the change. That being said, the wetting went down hill pretty quick. I don't know how conditions alter the aging process of solder but I'm guessing humidity plays some roll.
I'm sure someone here would be happy to send you a couple of feet of fresh solder in a PWE 5o try out.
On another note, what does your tip look like and how old is it? Running that hot is going to be rough on a tip unless your station has an auto off feature. Heater cartridge may need a checkup as well. You could have your iron set to 750 and only be getting 450 to the pad if everything isn't up to snuff.

Great info! Thanks, man! (Always learning.) I'll tinker with the temp more until it's just right. My solder is only a few months old, so I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. I built another circuit this week and had no issues.

 

[Mr. Strypes]

https://soundcloud.com/ehlabas-ma-chaussure%2Fts-50b-compared

made with an RC-3.
Here the TS-50B is compared with 2 other bass circuits, so we can feel the difference between TS-50B and a famous bass OD (original darkglass BK3, both switches engaged, blend and drive at noon, highs at 2' ) and a bass OD with real tubes (Sushi Box 's Bass Dude).

The TS-50B gain is set on max value (not the other ODs), Mids at 2 o'clock, Bass at mid rotation, Highs around 9'. The clean loop is played with a mediator (first half) and with bare fingers (second half). No compressor, nothing but the bass circuits mentioned.
T50's boost control changes the gain ratio of the first gain stage* and "tweaks slightly" the EQ, according to the instructions.

*i guess it's a TL71, 2nd stage is Q1 MPSA18, and last gain stage is formed by the 6 other 2N3906, the legendary tri-comp network.

Are you still saying it sounds "underwhelming" ? It's not supposed to sound perfect, it's supposed to grind... It probably sounds at its best when connected directly to the speaker, bypassing the preamp section of a bass amplifier. Lot of the sound's texture is also shaped by the speaker, it's not the circuit by itself that only matters.
So it's hard to really know if a circuit sounds good or bad, unless we can experiment with various combinations.

Conclusion : connected to an other activated preamp circuit, the TS-50 may or may not "grind" in a good way, not the most interesting circuit to play with earphones, for example ?

Thanks for the response! It doesn't sound underwhelming. In fact, the sound of the circuit is unique, biting without being too piercing. I like it! It's just that the static noise is nearly half the volume (or more) of the circuit sound.