Schadenfreude wants to tap, tap, tap

jeffwhitfield

jeffwhitfield

Well-known member
Hey folks, just finished a Schadenfreude a few days ago. I think it's working...but I'm getting a weird tap from it whenever it's engaged and I'm not playing. It's at a rhythm of ever 2 seconds and appears to be coming from the CD4046BE. I switched it out and it doesn't seem to fix it. Could it be I'm using the wrong CD4046? Or maybe the 100n film caps I'm using need to be changed out? Thx in advance. :)

IMG_0946.jpeg
IMG_0947.jpeg
 
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Chuck D. Bones said:
"Crude" doesn't begin to describe it.

Does the ticking change when you turn the SPEED or INTENSITY controls?
Click to expand...
Nope. Speed and Intensity has no effect.

I'll look into Robert's suggestion on the grounding of unused inputs. Makes sense if it's some internal issue with the 4046.

I'll also try Fig's suggestion...or at least investigate...cause you never know. Damn tantalum could very well cause something like this. Then again, if that was the case, then the tapping would occur before things even hit the CD4046. That is unless it's some jacked up filtering that only effects the CD4046. I'm not an engineer so I'm talking out my ass. :P

Heh..."crude". That's funny, right there. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Wowskers!

You've got one of them thar $50 silicon mauve thingers.

You like to mauve it mauve it, you like to mauve it mauve it, you like to...

MAUVE IT!



Subbed, in case I can learn something riding the coattails of others.
 
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Ok, so here's what I discovered...

I pulled the 4049 and didn't hear any taps. I also switched out C1 and C9, which resulted in a significant reduction in the timing between the taps. The taps are audible only on the left side of the 4046 (pins 2, 4, 6, & 7).

Only thing I can surmise is that the run of 4046's I got might be defective. Might try another one from a different vendor just for grins.

Granted, this is a "crude" circuit so could very well be that it's sensitive to the 4046 and caps used. If I turn on my noise gate with it I can make the taps go away easily so, while it's a bit annoying, it's not unusable. Gonna mark this one as "solved" for now. At the very least, this will let other builders know this could be an issue with this particular circuit.
 
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jeffwhitfield said:
Only thing I can surmise is that the run of 4046's I got might be defective. Might try another one from a different vendor just for grins.
Click to expand...
CMOS is very sensitive to ESD, so if the 4046 is defective, it was most likely cause by ESD. On the other hand, the design certainly has its defects...

I'm resisting the urge to breadboard it, just to find out what it does.
 
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Chuck D. Bones said:
CMOS is very sensitive to ESD, so if the 4046 is defective, it was most likely cause by ESD. On the other hand, the design certainly has its defects...

I'm resisting the urge to breadboard it, just to find out what it does.
Click to expand...
Considering the source the 4046's came from (Tayda) I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was ESD. I mean, Tayda is ok with most things...but I can't say with any certainty that they're all that great about how they handle ESD sensitive chips. Probably will get another set of 4046's from another vendor just for grins. :P

It's a weird one for sure. The Flock (Beetronics Swarm) is a pretty weird one too. That's been my thing though lately...weird shit! :P
 
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I think that if pulling the 4049 causes the tapping to stop, then the problem is in the 4049 part of the circuit. If the tapping persisted after removing the 4049, then I'd suspect the 4046.

What are you using to drive this circuit? If you're using a guitar, does turning the guitar's Volume control affect the tapping?
 
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Chuck D. Bones said:
I think that if pulling the 4049 causes the tapping to stop, then the problem is in the 4049 part of the circuit. If the tapping persisted after removing the 4049, then I'd suspect the 4046.

What are you using to drive this circuit? If you're using a guitar, does turning the guitar's Volume control affect the tapping?
Click to expand...
Definitely the 4046. Even without the 4049, you can clearly hear it pumping. Guitar volume has no effect. Happens even if it's just a loop pedal going into it followed by an Orange amp. Gonna get some 4046's with my next order for further testing. That's gotta be the problem. :P
 
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I wonder if your "tap tap" is my "tick tick" in the Super Heterodyne Receiver:

Ticking from SuperHeterodyne Receiver

I've poked at this one several times now, boxed it up, unboxed, rinse, repeat and I'm finally throwing it out there to see if anyone has any tips. This isn't the first time this has been mentioned: https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/mini-heterodyne-receiver.462/post-2722 The ticking only...
forum.pedalpcb.com forum.pedalpcb.com

Does it sound like this?

https://soundcloud.com/user-74207647%2Ftick%2Fs-q25YU2uUSou

Mine seems to be coming from IC6 which is a 4046 as well. I'm sure there are a boat load of other reasons why this could be occurring, but I've been watching this thread to see if you came to any conclusions. I too switched out the chip for one I bought directly from TI and the problem still existed. When I last pulled it off the shelf I feel like for a brief moment the noise went away when I unplugged the input (this isn't the case so I must have been delirious at the time), so I threw a shielded input cable on it just for the hell of it and no dice. The only thing that I've found that "fixed" it was knocking the voltage down to 8v.
 
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flemming said:
I wonder if your "tap tap" is my "tick tick" in the Super Heterodyne Receiver:

Ticking from SuperHeterodyne Receiver

I've poked at this one several times now, boxed it up, unboxed, rinse, repeat and I'm finally throwing it out there to see if anyone has any tips. This isn't the first time this has been mentioned: https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/mini-heterodyne-receiver.462/post-2722 The ticking only...
forum.pedalpcb.com forum.pedalpcb.com

Does it sound like this?

https://soundcloud.com/user-74207647%2Ftick%2Fs-q25YU2uUSou

Mine seems to be coming from IC6 which is a 4046 as well. I'm sure there are a boat load of other reasons why this could be occurring, but I've been watching this thread to see if you came to any conclusions. I too switched out the chip for one I bought directly from TI and the problem still existed. When I last pulled it off the shelf I feel like for a brief moment the noise went away when I unplugged the input (this isn't the case so I must have been delirious at the time), so I threw a shielded input cable on it just for the hell of it and no dice. The only thing that I've found that "fixed" it was knocking the voltage down to 8v.
Click to expand...
Interesting. It does seem similar. Mine is a much, much slower tick/tap...like a good 2-3 seconds apart. It slowed when I switched out the caps around it. I'm wondering if maybe adding a resistor inline on the leg that powers the chip will help...basically taking down the voltage enough to remove the tick/tap.
 
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