SOLVED What caused this?

jimstevens2022

New member
This pcb came from a vehicle interior with the board side seen in the attachment facing downwardly with some space below it. It was installed inside the vehicle. The car is about 2 years old.

Any idea what would have caused this corrosion on the transistor leads? The unit is not working and this would appear to be the cause. I cannot tell from visual inspection if any components failed.

Appreciate all the help I can get!
PCB1.jpg
 
Probably just the usual dirt and condensation you get with cars driving through all weather's

Did you check if it's getting voltages or reflow the solder joints

I'd clean it up and reflow the joints might just be a poor connection

Although it does look trashed it may not be
 
I already ruled out aliens, but this module is mounted in the center console between the vehicle seats with the side of the pcb facing downwardly so it is not clear how liquid would have gotten onto that side of the pcb, or that the corrosion could be just from a couple instances of liquid exposure, as opposed to just humidity itself causing it. There is a second same transistor nearby (not shown in the picture) that has the same thing - heavy corrosion on the collector terminals.

That is the real issue I am trying to determine and get input on - was this caused by liquid spills that crept under the center console top and somehow got onto the bottom of the board or would it have to have been some longer term exposure such as from humidity over the course of a couple summers, or something else?

I haven't tried to resolder, but am considering that, or even replacing the two transistors ($.20 each) rather than $250 from the dealer for a new module.

- Jim
 
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I've seen corrosion inside the jacketing of wires in vehicles. I'm not an electrician but the collector would seem the likely pin for this to occur, right?
 
Yes, this module is mounted in the center console between the vehicle seats with the side of the pcb facing downwardly so it is not clear how liquid would have gotten onto that side of the pcb from a spill, but that is what I am trying to determine.

Could the corrosion be just from a couple instances of liquid exposure, as opposed to just humidity itself causing it? There is a second same transistor nearby (not shown in the picture) that has the same thing - heavy corrosion on the collector terminals.

That is the real issue I am trying to determine and get input on - was this caused by liquid spills that crept under the center console top and somehow got onto the bottom of the board, or would it have to have been some longer term exposure such as from humidity over the course of a couple summers, or something else?

The reason it matters is because the dealer is asserting that it is customer (my) fault and not a warranty item. From my standpoint, I don't recall any instances of spills, but there might have been one or two. If it is my fault then I'm willing to pony up the large sum for the replacement part and labor, although even then I have to wonder about it being essentially a design flaw if a couple of spills could cause that underneath the console top.

My problem is that I don't see or have any more evidence of it being my fault than either a manufacturing or design problem. Moreover, before they even looked at it they mentioned that these cars have that problem not infrequently.

I do have some electrical test equipment, but the part is at the dealer. Unless they agree to somewhat split it with me, I might just tell them to give it back and I'll try to reflow the connections or even replace the $.20 transistors. Would be better than the 100x module cost and 300x labor cost they want to charge me!

More thoughts? You guys are being helpful.
 
Maybe a few pictures of the entire enclosure the board was in would help… looking at a handful of components on a board it’s hard to figure out where the liquid came from. I know Hyundai had a recall a number of years ago because there was liquid leaking ona seatbelt sensor on the center console the resulted in failure and death.
 
More pics, sure thing.

Here is the top of the module - a couple coaxial rotary knobs (function switch and volume pot), and a couple of micro-deflection switches. You can see a little water stain on the one switch, but again, how should that be able to get under the module and onto the downward facing side of the circuit board. Certainly possible to wick around the edge, but would that be enough in one or two instances to cause that corrosion all by itself?

Second picture is the full underside of the module with the two transistors that have corroded collector terminals.

20220105_170546.jpg

20220105_170556.jpg
 
Liquid could have passed through those through-hole vias beside the transistor (there are probably more underneath the other transistor).

Just because you have obvious water damage in one spot doesn't necessarily mean the liquid was confined to that area the entire time. It also could have flowed around a bit while the vehicle was in motion.

If it were caused by long term condensation or humidity you'd think the damage wouldn't be localized to one area like that.

I'm surprised that module doesn't have some form of protective conformal coating, things like that usually do... The one time goop would have actually been beneficial...


If the dealer isn't going to cover the cost of the repair I would absolutely attempt to repair it myself before forking over a large amount of cash, it's not under warranty anyway so nothing to lose.
 
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If it were caused by long term condensation or humidity you'd think the damage wouldn't be localized to one area like that.

I'm surprised that module doesn't have some form of protective conformal coating, things like that usually do... The one time goop would have actually been beneficial...
Yes, agreed on the more uniform corrosion if it was precipitate from high humidity.

I said the same thing to the dealer about sealing the board. Right next to the cup holders is the most likely spill area and if the radio knob shafts and edges of the module were not sealed, then why wouldn't they have put a conformal coat over the circuit. And given that they told me this problem has occurred relatively often, it seems like it should be at least in part considered a design flaw.
So long as it’s not a critical drive part or safety system
It is not critical, just radio and display screen control. Except that oddly enough, it disabled the manual buttons of the climate control, so I can only operate that via the touchscreen display. They said that for some reason they are interconnected and that they verified that the manual buttons all work when they plugged in a working radio knob module for the bad one.

Anyways, I'm not trying to get out of any responsibility for it, I just want to make sure that it all should be on me, and that they should at least buy me dinner before charging $750 labor for swapping in a new one.

Cheers and thanks. If I get any interesting resolution, I'll post it.
 
I'd say attempt a repair the dealer would probably just replace the whole pcb so even if it doesn't work you've lost very little

I would also contact the main office with any Google info you find specific to this problem

Even if you did spill something surely that's to be expected accidents happen so to me the design should have taken that into consideration and made sure it was safely sealed

I personally think it's the manufacturers responsibility to make sure all scenarios are covered

It's all part if the design process scenario building ie looks good but what if somebody does this or accidentally presses that etc

I honestly think you've a good case
 
They're the only dealer in Michigan, where I am. I had thought about calling one in another state to ask about the part cost.

The car is fully under warranty except that they consider it customer damage and so not covered. I might ask another dealer how they treat water spill/infiltration damage to the electronics. But, I imagine all dealers would treat it pretty much the same, it's just the uncertainty of what really caused it - me or something else.
 
I personally think it's the manufacturers responsibility to make sure all scenarios are covered
Yes, I agree. Really, I think I'd remember some massive spill of caustic Coke, at most I'd think there would have been an instance or two of water/coffee that dripped or sloshed a little bit on there. Nothing that should have been able to leak through and gotten onto unprotected electronics.
 
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