Who Else Is Using the 'SpinCAD Designer' App?

[Graal]

OK, your 2nd iteration is different from your first. So I'm going with your latest. But more importantly, what aspect of your patch are finding difficult to achieve?

In testing your settings, I find the verb gets very muddy when Pot0 is turned up. But when I turned the Scale Offset 'Output Low' down from 66 to 15, the reverb control (Pot0) seemed more digestible.

Also, when I moved the pitch elements in front of the Small Reverb block, things cleaned up a good bit too.

Still, without a more complete understanding of what you're trying to achieve, I'm not sure how much help I can provide.

First of all, thanks for your help!
I'd like to obtain something like the Dark Star by Obne. Let's say something quite far from a normal reverb..

 

[Graal]

You can of course edit the Spin ASM if you like. I'll spend a little time this weekend seeing if I can concoct something. I did not focus much on "infinite hold" possibilities when coming up with SpinCAD. Here are a few general concepts to deal with when "cranking the feedback".

- too much loop gain will cause overload which can cause the chip to lock up unless you block DC in the loop with a high pass filter (single pole is adequate)
- try using a limiter block in the feedback path to help keep things under control

DL

Hi Larry! I have no experience in coding but at some point I'll probably try to do it.
Thanks for the tips.
Just another noob question: freeze Fx like Stammen by Drolo (which uses Fv-1), is something achievable with Spincad?

 

[Digital Larry]

Just another noob question: freeze Fx like Stammen by Drolo (which uses Fv-1), is something achievable with Spincad?

Well I do recall interacting with him back in the day but by the looks of it he has done a number of things that indicate he is also hand-writing Spin ASM. So, most honest answer is "I'm not sure".

 

[Cybercow]

Hi Larry! I have no experience in coding but at some point I'll probably try to do it.
Thanks for the tips.
Just another noob question: freeze Fx like Stammen by Drolo (which uses Fv-1), is something achievable with Spincad?

I've seen some threads (don't remember from what forums) where this was discussed with potential ideas and diagrams. If I encounter them again, I'll post the link(s).

 

[phi1]

I typically write my fv-1 code by hand, having learned mainly from the info and examples on the spinsemi site. But I have used spincad as a helpful reference tool for things like filters. I export a simple spincad to asm and study it, and compare to block diagrams on spinsemi.

So I’m not using it to its full power, but it’s been a helpful tool

 

[Digital Larry]

I typically write my fv-1 code by hand, having learned mainly from the info and examples on the spinsemi site. But I have used spincad as a helpful reference tool for things like filters. I export a simple spincad to asm and study it, and compare to block diagrams on spinsemi.

So I’m not using it to its full power, but it’s been a helpful tool

The main area where you are going to see strange differences between SpinCAD generated code and hand written examples is where the delay RAM is used. The modules had to be written so that the RAM segments could be relocated in a single pass. Perhaps it could have been done another way, but readability of the generated code was not my top priority.

 

[dagrider]

While I'm hugely appreciative of the work Digital Larry has done with SpinCad Designer, I choose not to use it. A few reasons:
- Inefficient use of Instructions and Registers
- Inability to live-view ASM code
- Sound Preview doesn't work with every module
- Limited Blocks and not all are working

Again, what Larry created is great. It got me started with the FV1 and served as a useful reference and comparison tool. Some of these issues are just what comes with creating code blocks as modules and using a graphical tool to put them together.

That said, it's just so much better and more enjoyable to write the code yourself. Just your brain, a text editor and infinite possibilities.

 

[Digital Larry]

- Inability to live-view ASM code

Try running it in debug mode and you will see the generated ASM every time you make a connection or press "Start Simulation". Control panel settings changes don't recalculate the model.



A little known secret is that even if you put more things in and push resources into the red, it will still generate code. I don't remember how far you can push it. Obviously it won't assemble but you can use the documented optimization strategy to trim it back. What's a better use of your time? I don't know. If you like writing FV-1 code then that's cool. I hated it even when I was getting paid to do it!

As far as your other points, that's fine, knock yourself out.

DL

 

[s.anselm]

I've been using SpinCAD for a couple months now but keep running into random audio drops. Restarting SpinCAD sometimes fixes the issues. Other times restarted the computer. Neither is a reliable fix. At first, I thought maybe I'm just a noob creating patches that don't work, but trying simple input-to-output patches causes the same issue: Simulator audio stops at a whim.

Maybe Apple's OS 14 finally broke Java for good? It's enough to make put Windows on an old Intel Mac because SpinCAD is otherwise invaluable.

 

[Digital Larry]

I've been using SpinCAD for a couple months now but keep running into random audio drops. Restarting SpinCAD sometimes fixes the issues. Other times restarted the computer. Neither is a reliable fix. At first, I thought maybe I'm just a noob creating patches that don't work, but trying simple input-to-output patches causes the same issue: Simulator audio stops at a whim.

Maybe Apple's OS 14 finally broke Java for good? It's enough to make put Windows on an old Intel Mac because SpinCAD is otherwise invaluable.

Well, that's a shame to hear. Perhaps you could run it in debug mode as shown above and see if anything suspect shows up.

Edit - OK I just double checked on my Macbook Air running Monterey 12.7.1. The simulation indeed stops after a few seconds and can't be convinced to continue without restarting the app. The version of Java that SpinCAD was built with is 18-something. The version of Java on this Mac is 12.0.1 dated 2019. That's 5 years old AFAIK. Nothing magical is going on in the simulator, in fact I did not even write that part of it. I've always had difficulty updating Java on the Mac. Let me know what your Java version is.

$ java -version
java version "12.0.1" 2019-04-16
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 12.0.1+12)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 12.0.1+12, mixed mode, sharing)

DL

 

[s.anselm]

Thank you for checking.

I am running Java 8 Update 401.
java version "21.0.2" 2024-01-16 LTS
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 21.0.2+13-LTS-58)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 21.0.2+13-LTS-58, mixed mode, sharing)
anselm@MacBook-Air ~ %

I tried a few things and it is truly intermittent. I wonder if I can get an older version of Java to run on this Mac, and if that would do the trick. I do have an older Mac, too, that might be more receptive to an older version.

 

[Digital Larry]

It's hard to say. I have no idea. It's always worked OK on Windoze. Java's not the most modern programming environment, for all I know Apple has some security lock down on playing WAV files.

What if you set the simulator mode to File output? That seems to work here.

 

[s.anselm]

I was, after much consternation, able to install an older version of Java on macOS 14. For those trying to rid their machines of older java versions, these are the only instructions I found that work:

How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine

How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine - How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine.md

gist.github.com

JRE 18 will run on macOS 14. Whether this is an "updated" version designed to run on new Mac's with ARM processor or a much older version or "generic" ARM version that happens to work on modern Apple chips... what's on behind the scenes... who knows?

Alas, the simulator issues continue.

So, it seems Windows is the way to go. Now, if Java will want Windows on an Intel processor or will be okay with it on Apple's new ARM processors remains to be seen... I'll probably opt for older hardware with an Intel just to avoid the headache.

 

[Digital Larry]

Here's the code in question. Hasn't changed in ten years.

SpinCAD-Designer/src/org/andrewkilpatrick/elmGen/simulator/AudioFileReader.java at master · HolyCityAudio/SpinCAD-Designer

SpinCAD Designer is an open source Java project which allows creation of patches for the Spin FV-1 audio DSP chip. - HolyCityAudio/SpinCAD-Designer

github.com

SpinCAD-Designer/src/org/andrewkilpatrick/elmGen/simulator/SpinSimulator.java at master · HolyCityAudio/SpinCAD-Designer

SpinCAD Designer is an open source Java project which allows creation of patches for the Spin FV-1 audio DSP chip. - HolyCityAudio/SpinCAD-Designer

github.com

 

[jwin615]

I was, after much consternation, able to install an older version of Java on macOS 14. For those trying to rid their machines of older java versions, these are the only instructions I found that work:

How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine

How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine - How to uninstall older versions of JDK on a OSX machine.md

gist.github.com

JRE 18 will run on macOS 14. Whether this is an "updated" version designed to run on new Mac's with ARM processor or a much older version or "generic" ARM version that happens to work on modern Apple chips... what's on behind the scenes... who knows?

Alas, the simulator issues continue.

So, it seems Windows is the way to go. Now, if Java will want Windows on an Intel processor or will be okay with it on Apple's new ARM processors remains to be seen... I'll probably opt for older hardware with an Intel just to avoid the headache.

You can install other/older versions but need to check and see what the OS is using as the home lib.
Check here

 

[Digital Larry]

@s.anselm @Giorfida

What if you set the simulator mode to File output? That seems to work here.

 

[Giorfida]

@s.anselm @Giorfida

What if you set the simulator mode to File output? That seems to work here.

View attachment 69463

Think you may have meant to tag someone else. I haven’t used the software yet— still need to build my dev pedal