New Euro safety regulations for electronics start tomorrow
- Thread starter Passinwind
- Start date
Ship them as "kits"--JHS style kits.
Passinwind
Well-known member
Unless you hire a
Passinwind
Well-known member
Nostradoomus
Well-known member
Man if I was in the EU I’d be hitting up all the small pedal companies to act as their agent. 
Passinwind
Well-known member
And if I were an insurance agent I'd be selling you a two gazillion dollar liability policy!Man if I was in the EU I’d be hitting up all the small pedal companies to act as their agent.
rackumusik
Member
Im living in Germany.Fuck the Europe and Germany regulations.
Fama
Well-known member
From a quick skimming of the new regulations:
Do you think that's a burden you can't overcome?
Or to put it another way, on paper you should have already have done other regulatory testing before selling anything, as far as I can tell. This doesn't change anything in that regard. Or maybe you did already have everything tested for safety and I was just unaware of it.
Technically the page linked on that post says:
Pretty much anyone in Finland understands English, for one. Does that count?
I feel like everybody is overreacting and I'm obviously being facetious in response, but it gets tiring to hear FUD or just flat out lies about EU regulations, when by and far I feel like it's been a big positive force for me at least. The "need to have a local agent" thing sounds scary, but then I don't think a lot of the other stuff was enforced very heavily for small companies before. They're not the issue and there's probably no resources to go after everyone, the point is to avoid EMC misbehavior and maybe sites like Temu and Aliexpress which will sell any old shit that will just catch fire randomly - and a lot of it, not just a few pedals here and there.
JTEX
Well-known member
Of course I didn't. I never would have even started JTEX if I had to go through all that with the hope to maybe one day sell a few filters here, some compressors there, and the occasional pedal or four. I suspect almost no startup businesses would get off the ground if they had to deal with such burdens. Which is probably why there are so many more startups and innovation in less regulated locales. I have lived and worked in both Europe and North America and I have no idea how people can get anything done in Europe.
I honestly don't see how this would include low frequency, low voltage analog devices.
It's focus should be radio and IoT devices. There's also the security part of spyware USB cables, etc.
But I doubt a collection of resistors and a 072 are really in the scope. At least it shouldn't be.
It's focus should be radio and IoT devices. There's also the security part of spyware USB cables, etc.
But I doubt a collection of resistors and a 072 are really in the scope. At least it shouldn't be.
Feral Feline
Well-known member
I'm sure it'll be fine, just like how CITES has had zero negative-impact on musicians' travel with their instruments, luthiers sourcing wood for crafting instruments... CITES only goes after those illegal wood-traders that are also dabbling in or connected to organized crime, sex trafficking, corruption, human rights violations, illegal logging, species extinction and climate change.
With the new Euregulations, they're just after the big corpo-abusers.
None of the little guys are going to fall through the cracked-vias and get poked in the eye with a THD unclipped lead...
With the new Euregulations, they're just after the big corpo-abusers.
None of the little guys are going to fall through the cracked-vias and get poked in the eye with a THD unclipped lead...
szukalski
Well-known member
They're not going after anyone in particular as far as I am aware. It's all about citizen rights. Making sure that the products sold to us are halfway decent and that our food is actual food.
It's a bit of a challenge to work with it, and I reckon smaller companies will get hit more than larger ones. It really is a pain to navigate, but it's to my benefit as an individual. I get decent products, and food which doesn't harm me.
At the end of the day, it's a compromise and a culture difference between USA and EU. The EU puts in guardrails to protect my citizen rights, which have operational overhead. Where-as, the USA trusts business to not do anything which would be bad for me.
It's a bit of a challenge to work with it, and I reckon smaller companies will get hit more than larger ones. It really is a pain to navigate, but it's to my benefit as an individual. I get decent products, and food which doesn't harm me.
At the end of the day, it's a compromise and a culture difference between USA and EU. The EU puts in guardrails to protect my citizen rights, which have operational overhead. Where-as, the USA trusts business to not do anything which would be bad for me.
andare
Well-known member
I can see how a small business will get hurt by this.
I think the need to provide documentation in local languages is a nothingburger. Just do translations. The world doesn't revolve around English alone. I say that as an English teacher. Every item we buy has instructions in a dozen languages. Those come in handy when you're on the toilet and your phone's dead.
But the need for a local representative with full liability is quite a cost for a small business and a drop in the water for large companies. So this will hurt the little man. One could say it's usually the little man who stiffs his customers. Small businesses run by individuals less than professional or who get overhelmed with orders and can't scale up.
Who knows.
On the other hand, if I purchase a good from a small company in the US, I don't expect to be able to afford shipping costs and times back and forth to have a unit repaired. It's impractical. I know that going in. I expect email or phone support only but I guess the law can't differentiate here.
Apparently there's another regulation that requires app vendors to have a registered physical address in order to sell apps in the EU. Small developers would have to pay for a PO Box (or give their home address lol). Who sends physical mail in 2024, especially to an app developer with no physical products? Your lawyer? I guess here too regulations can't differentiate. If I want to sue an app developer because their crappy app wiped my phone clean and I have the means to hire a lawyer and sue their ass, is an email legally binding? No idea.
I think customer protection is great.
I pay no mind to Americans who deride us Europeans for having a nanny government. I also pay no mind to EU citizens who enjoy all the perks of a nanny state but cry government overreach when it keeps them from getting the latest iPhone features.
However EU legislators are usually a bunch of career politicians with no knowledge of the real world. I think they're either making clumsy attempts to provide for their citizens or they're trying to protect EU companies from foreign competition. Protectionism is perfectly normal. Everybody does it. Import fees and tariffs are a form of protectionism. It just looks weird now because the EU has no tech giants except Spotify.
I was planning a couple of costly purchases from the US. Now they're both on hold till the companies better understand how this plays out.
I think the need to provide documentation in local languages is a nothingburger. Just do translations. The world doesn't revolve around English alone. I say that as an English teacher. Every item we buy has instructions in a dozen languages. Those come in handy when you're on the toilet and your phone's dead.
But the need for a local representative with full liability is quite a cost for a small business and a drop in the water for large companies. So this will hurt the little man. One could say it's usually the little man who stiffs his customers. Small businesses run by individuals less than professional or who get overhelmed with orders and can't scale up.
Who knows.
On the other hand, if I purchase a good from a small company in the US, I don't expect to be able to afford shipping costs and times back and forth to have a unit repaired. It's impractical. I know that going in. I expect email or phone support only but I guess the law can't differentiate here.
Apparently there's another regulation that requires app vendors to have a registered physical address in order to sell apps in the EU. Small developers would have to pay for a PO Box (or give their home address lol). Who sends physical mail in 2024, especially to an app developer with no physical products? Your lawyer? I guess here too regulations can't differentiate. If I want to sue an app developer because their crappy app wiped my phone clean and I have the means to hire a lawyer and sue their ass, is an email legally binding? No idea.
I think customer protection is great.
I pay no mind to Americans who deride us Europeans for having a nanny government. I also pay no mind to EU citizens who enjoy all the perks of a nanny state but cry government overreach when it keeps them from getting the latest iPhone features.
However EU legislators are usually a bunch of career politicians with no knowledge of the real world. I think they're either making clumsy attempts to provide for their citizens or they're trying to protect EU companies from foreign competition. Protectionism is perfectly normal. Everybody does it. Import fees and tariffs are a form of protectionism. It just looks weird now because the EU has no tech giants except Spotify.
I was planning a couple of costly purchases from the US. Now they're both on hold till the companies better understand how this plays out.
JTEX
Well-known member
To me it's about presumption of innocence. If I claim that my product is harmless, it should be presumed harmless unless someone makes a complaint and it's proven to be harmful. If that's the case, then sure, go after me, prevent me from selling it, fine me, jail me and so on. But I shouldn't have to expend massive resources to prove in advance that I'm not about to commit a violation. Just take my word for it, and if I lied, then go after me. You know, like in the justice system?
Minority Report comes to mind.
Minority Report comes to mind.
Unfortunately big corporations abuse these kinds of honor systems to the full extent, which economically makes sense of course and is kind of expected in capitalist societies. I don't think it's a bad idea to try and put a stop to this via regulations, but I think the EU sometimes doesn't play out these ideas far enough and that's when entities, which were never really the target, suffer the consequences.
Robert
Reverse Engineer
The offending entities that this is directed towards will have the means to circumvent the regulations.
I'm going to keep shipping until things start coming back... a couple years ago we were told that we would have to collect and remit customs fees / VAT for any shipment to EU/UK, otherwise they would be destroyed or returned. So far none have been returned or destroyed to my knowledge.
I'm going to keep shipping until things start coming back... a couple years ago we were told that we would have to collect and remit customs fees / VAT for any shipment to EU/UK, otherwise they would be destroyed or returned. So far none have been returned or destroyed to my knowledge.
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szukalski
Well-known member
Yet, this was still put in place. The recipient has to pay an additional handling fee, roughly $6 per package in Germany, to handle this (plus pay whatever VAT is relevant). It makes it cost prohibitive to use an overseas vendor who doesn't manage EU tax on your behalf (which is any pedal related shop).
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