Tube screamer types w/ Four or more knobs

[Pauleo1214]

Hi everyone! An idea for a combo pedal popped into my head. The first one in the chain has to be a tube screamer.

This is a superficial concern, but I would like to avoid the three knob look. The Danae looks like a great YATS alternative, are there any others?

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

TS9/808 with a rotary switch to select clipping types?

 

[swyse]

I'd say the Danae is more timmy adjacent than tube screamer.

Dwarven Hammer - PedalPCB.com

Compare to Horizon Nano Attack / Precision Drive

www.pedalpcb.com

How do you use the TS? If its to boost and tighten things up you might like this take on it its a bufferless TS with a rotary switch to change the filter for the bass cut on the clipping op amp.

Gauss Drive - PedalPCB.com

Compare to Mesa/Boogie Flux Drive

www.pedalpcb.com

This is essentially a BB preamp, which is a TS with a fixed tone knob and an additional treble and bass control tacked onto the end.

Bootleg Overdrive - PedalPCB.com

Compare to JHS Moonshine V2

www.pedalpcb.com

This is a TS with a clean blend as the added knob, it also has a toggle switch but you could jumper it into the position you want to keep your aesthetic.

 

[BuddytheReow]

Frost Drive - PedalPCB.com

Compare to VFE Ice Scream

www.pedalpcb.com

The only TS you'll ever need

 

[Pauleo1214]

Definitely trying the Frost Drive and Dwarven Hammer! Thank you.

How do you use the TS?

I plan to use it in front of the Tweedman Overdrive to make an overly involved Dumble type OD called the Crystal Lettuce Combo

 

[peccary]

Madbeans Green Bean is a good one, it has clipping options as well.

 

[HamishR]

The Danae is definitely more Timmy than TS, but it's still the one I would go with. It's a great sounding pedal.

Recently I was experimenting with how I could make a TS sound different/more useful to me. I've learnt a lot of this from Chuck. First thing I did was get rid of the transistor stages, which is quite common with modded TS circuits. Then as always I added a bass control. If you then simplify the treble control you are well on your way to turning it into a Timmy!

If you want a four-knob TS, then the first version of the Xotic BB would be a good choice. As Swyse has pointed out it's a TS with fixed tone control and added EQ. The first version used a single pair of clipping diodes which gave it that compressed TS style of clipping, so it could do the TS thing pretty well. Turning the bass down will get you there. It does retain that TS style midrange.

 

[eh là bas ma]

The Danae looks like a great YATS alternative, are there any others? (...) I plan to use it in front of the Tweedman Overdrive to make an overly involved Dumble type OD

You want to use a Tweed Man after it, so you will be able to do some tone shaping with its active 3-bands EQ. All the complex TS variants with additional controls don't make much sense in this case.

A Zen Drive might be a good choice for the sound you're aiming at. It is supposed to emulate the sound of a dumble amplifier. It certainly has its own flavor, close to a stripped down TS with a nice clipping texture, and it's always a good match with the Tweed Man. You can easily increase the available gain on the Zen Drive, by increasing the drive pot value, pushing it into distortion .

It's such a simple project, that i'd recommend a perfboard or a vero build :

Hermida Zen Drive

dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com

Lovepedal/Hermida Audio Zendrive

Got a request for this one. The Zendrive is a low-to-medium gain overdrive, delivering blues to jazz tones. It has an interesting clipping s...

effectslayouts.blogspot.com

Don't forget to use a pot instead of a trimmer for the Tweed Man internal Presence control, it's very useful.

 

[EZS]

Acer / Altero Kaede. Bleh, Meh, and if I actuaclly paid good money for this, Id have a fit. Seriously I just tested a build with lack luster impressions. Sorry for the rant but 4 knob TS caught my eye.

 

[spi]

Zen drive was the first thing that came to mind. The Soloist if you don't mind the addition of a switch.

But I think the Virgil fits the bill.

 

[Pauleo1214]

A Zen Drive might be a good choice for the sound you're aiming at. It is supposed to emulate the sound of a dumble amplifier.

I built a number of Zen Drive/ Dumble in a box in a clones. and a Brown Note D'Lite dumble style amp kit, so I'm good there. I built that D'lite because I wondered what the fuss was about Dumble amps. I almost had the opportunity to play a real Dumbo (sorry, Dumble) in a vintage guitar store, but the owner wouldn't let anyone touch it, let alone play it.

Anyway, the "mojo" behind those amps is the butt of a lot of jokes. I recall reading Robin Ford stating in a interview that if you throw a TS in front of a Bassman, you're 98% of the way there. Building a combo TS/Tweedman will be one of my stupid experiments to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[eh là bas ma]

Here is a thread about this exact question :

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/dumble-sound-is-just-a-bassman-with-a-tubescreamer.2054120/

Reply #193, based on Robben Ford's interview : "He [Mister Dumble] was inspired by Ford's tone at the time when he was playing a blackface Bassman."

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/dumble-sound-is-just-a-bassman-with-a-tubescreamer.2054120/post-28706947

I find the whole dumble topic quite surprising.
R. Ford often repeats the same simple words all over the world, eyes wide open like he means it, to describe his favorite Dumble amps :
"The low ends aren't too mushy, they are clear. The mids are punchy and clear. High ends are clear, they aren't too piercing".

So much money and so much interest for such basic characteristics ? Reminds me of the art market with incredible prices due to speculation.
If i understood correctly, Mister Dumble only did 2 or 3 amps a year. Lucky or brilliant, or both, he got all the right connections with successful artists, and that explains the fame and the prices.

I'm not a jazz enthusiast, the Great Dumble Quest looks a bit funny from my perspective. The whole point of Dumble amps is to have high quality sounds when playing at super high volume, they are designed for some guitarist on stage, facing ten thousands people, right ?

I wonder if there are still some jazz band able to play in huge locations, in front of a big crowd ? Not saying jazz is dead, but it certainly isn't its golden age anymore though.

Playing a real Dumble amp at home or with some friends in a bar, wouldn't it be the wrong tool for the job ? Like using an helicopter to go buy some tobacco at the corner of the street ?

 

[cdwillis]

I associate Dumble amps with blues and bluesy rock guitarists, not jazz players. The most famous Dumble amp users off the top of my head are Robben Ford, Carlos Santana, SRV, Jackson Browne, and John Mayer.

Alfonso Hermida designed the Zen Drive to try to match Robben's tone from the Dumble amp. Every Zen drive derivative circuit has been marketed as Dumblesque, which is has always annoyed the shit out of me because every Dumble was individually tweaked to that specific user when it was made and these pretty much all these guys making these stompboxes have never played an actual Dumble amp in the first place. Sorry for ranting off topic here lol.

 

[Feral Feline]

... Like using an helicopter to go buy some tobacco at the corner of the street ?

Beer run in a plane...

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

Since we’re on the topic of dumble tone now, I’ll say a few things.

First off, Larry Carlton is known for his absolutely incredible tone In addition to his unique approach to melody and phrasing. Larry is known for using an Overdrive Special, but most of his most highly regarded and arguably best sounding sessions (Joni’s Court & Spark and Hejira, Steely Dan’s Royal Scam, Donald Fagen’s Nightfly, etc) probably didn’t use it. I don’t think he even had it yet when he was recording most of the Joni and SD stuff.

Second, I got to hear a real life dumble (not sure which model it was either time. I lost interest so those details haven’t remained in my memory) in both a concert setting and in a small club. In the club the amp sounded good, but I wouldn’t say it was the best tone I ever heard, nor was it a transcendent experience. In the concert it sounded like ass because the sound guy sucked and once you’re playing with a board mix thru the venue’s sound system, your tone is at the mercy of whoever is running sound.

Third, the very first Dumble SSS was built for Henry Kaiser, and he’s known for his almost comically bad tone.

I had more to say, but my phone died and it didn’t cache the rest of what I typed lol.

Anyway, my point was going to be that I doubt most people know what a dumble actually sounds like, so it doesn’t matter if a TS into a tweedy AIAB actually sounds like a dumble or not as long as it sounds pleasing to you and inspires you to play.

 

[Feral Feline]

Heard Robben Ford play his in an auditorium (in Hong Kong) with good acoustics and a very good sound engineer. Engineer didn't have much influence on the Dumble's sound as Ford had his Dumble cranked so loud it was all the engineer could do to bring everything else up to match it.

Larry Carlton wasn't brave/foolish enough to bring his Dumble to Hong Kong, IIRC.

Both players sounded good, like themselves.


So while the audience may not get a true representation of the Dumble sound in many cases (due to venue, engineer, FOH system, whatever), how the guitarist reacts to his instrument through a Dumble might be all that matters.

How many right here have heard little if any difference when a friend is A/B-ing two amps/pedals/instruments, only to FEEL the difference once it's their turn to play through the amps/pedals/instruments?

Is it a placebo effect? In some cases it may be.

I've tried some things and it didn't sound nor feel different.

However, I've also had a few moments where I thought "Aha! That feels different" with gear not as illustrious as a Dumble, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't the placebo effect. Tube-rolling was one of those times. The difference between a crappy Chinese generic power-tube and a GE metal-can and a NOS RCA glass was an ear-opener for me. Couldn't tell a difference in Tube-Rolling videos/recordings, but in person and playing them myself. Wow.


Placebo or not, if the player thinks/feels it's different and inspires them to play better, then that is all that matters. Well, so long as the overall tone isn't as bad as Henry Kaiser's — and let's face it, if that was Dumble's first amp then ol' Howie was just learning the ropes, teething problems.

 

[Pauleo1214]

Heard Robben Ford play his in an auditorium (in Hong Kong) with good acoustics and a very good sound engineer. Engineer didn't have much influence on the Dumble's sound as Ford had his Dumble cranked so loud it was all the engineer could do to bring everything else up to match it.

Larry Carlton wasn't brave/foolish enough to bring his Dumble to Hong Kong, IIRC.

Both players sounded good, like themselves.


So while the audience may not get a true representation of the Dumble sound in many cases (due to venue, engineer, FOH system, whatever), how the guitarist reacts to his instrument through a Dumble might be all that matters.

How many right here have heard little if any difference when a friend is A/B-ing two amps/pedals/instruments, only to FEEL the difference once it's their turn to play through the amps/pedals/instruments?

Is it a placebo effect? In some cases it may be.

I've tried some things and it didn't sound nor feel different.

However, I've also had a few moments where I thought "Aha! That feels different" with gear not as illustrious as a Dumble, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't the placebo effect. Tube-rolling was one of those times. The difference between a crappy Chinese generic power-tube and a GE metal-can and a NOS RCA glass was an ear-opener for me. Couldn't tell a difference in Tube-Rolling videos/recordings, but in person and playing them myself. Wow.


Placebo or not, if the player thinks/feels it's different and inspires them to play better, then that is all that matters. Well, so long as the overall tone isn't as bad as Henry Kaiser's — and let's face it, if that was Dumble's first amp then ol' Howie was just learning the ropes, teething problems.

Well this thread turned serious given I plan to make a build called Crystal Lettuce Combo Deluxe

 

[Feral Feline]

Well this thread turned serious given I plan to make a build called Crystal Lettuce Combo Deluxe

Just make sure your YATS controls all have the same name: MOE

Four Knobs Named Moe





Maybe a 5-knobber ...

Mo Moh


.. .....Moah



Moe Moar

 

[geoffrey]

I think a Red Herring (Red Snapper) could possibly be listed in this category as well

 

[EZS]

Acer / Altero Kaede. Bleh, Meh, and if I actuaclly paid good money for this, Id have a fit. Seriously I just tested a build with lack luster impressions. Sorry for the rant but 4 knob TS caught my eye.

Im kind of recanting on this earlier comment. I actually gave it another try just now out of boredom. I chained a Fordoble Boost/Drive, Pauper, & Acer, and got to know this pedal better. After about 30 min using the other two drives as a benchmark, I was able to learn this pedal and actually found a decent tone. That being said, Im not bashing it anymore. I apologize if my previous comments influenced anyone in a negative manner.