Beatles Bass Tone

[benny_profane]

A friend is looking to hit McCartney bass tone (specifically abbey road). I’m thinking compressor (fast attack/slow release) and some dirt. There’s of course no shortage of Beatles in a box guitar pedals, but I’m interested to hear some bass ideas.

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

That sounds about right. I’ve gone after the macca bass tone, and pedal-wise, that’s pretty much the key. One important aspect though that is essential to getting the sound is nylon tapewound strings— not just regular flatwound, but tapewounds. Flatwounds will get you much closer than anything you could imagine getting with roundwounds, but the tapewounds will get you closer still.

 

[benny_profane]

All very good and helpful points! What gain circuit would you recommend? I was thinking a soft clipping overdrive with a blend control.

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

Hard to say what would get close.
I got closest with a DOD boneshaker with the distortion almost entirely down, and just got the grit by goosing the gain on the bass and mid bands of the gyrator EQ section.

 

[Coda]

All very good and helpful points! What gain circuit would you recommend? I was thinking a soft clipping overdrive with a blend control.

I would try something based on the Bassman, since that is what he was using on that record.

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

I would try something based on the Bassman, since that is what he was using on that record.

Specifically a silverface.

The main basses on abbey road are Paul on the 500/1 with nylon tapewound strings and the jazz bass with flatwounds, and George on the Fender VI with flatwounds.
It’s also fair to assume that a few of the bass tracks were DI’d and never ran through the bassman, in which case you just have compression and the grit from being of the edge of redlining a channel strip.

 

[benny_profane]

Hard to say what would get close.
I got closest with a DOD boneshaker with the distortion almost entirely down, and just got the grit by goosing the gain on the bass and mid bands of the gyrator EQ section.

Interesting. So you're essentially taking the clipping out of the circuit and using the active EQ for frequency boost? I'm thinking Compressor > JFET Gain Stage > Active EQ. Paired with the right bass setup (and picking technique), how does that sound?

 

[peccary]

I'd have him watch some Carole Kaye pick technique videos. That and some tapewounds or flats will get you most of the way down the road.

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

Interesting. So you're essentially taking the clipping out of the circuit and using the active EQ for frequency boost? I'm thinking Compressor > JFET Gain Stage > Active EQ. Paired with the right bass setup (and picking technique), how does that sound?

I’d swap the eq and gain stage. Essentially you’re trying to use the eq to a point where the frequencies you’re boosting go beyond the limits of clean headroom in the following gain stage, so you wind up with an unaffected high end and a bit of saturation in the low mids and bass frequencies

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

I'd have him watch some Carole King pick technique videos. That and some tapewounds or flats will get you most of the way down the road.

I love Carole King, but I think her piano and singing skills are where you can learn more from her. For bass, maybe Carol Kaye is a better bet

 

[peccary]

I love Carole King, but I think her piano and singing skills are where you can learn more from her. For bass, maybe Carol Kaye is a better bet

That's what I get for trying to have a conversation here while my daughter climbs all over me.

 

[peccary]

Oh, and big fat, thick picks. The purple Dunlop's are what I settled on to practice Carole King Kaye tech

 

[benny_profane]

I’d swap the eq and gain stage. Essentially you’re trying to use the eq to a point where the frequencies you’re boosting go beyond the limits of clean headroom in the following gain stage, so you wind up with an unaffected high end and a bit of saturation in the low mids and bass frequencies

Very good point! Thank you!

I think I just need to nail down the comp architecture. I'd prefer to keep the comp block rather straightforward, so I think that eliminates an OTA circuit. What do bass folks have better experiences with, optical or JFET-based compressors?

 

[Bricksnbeatles]

Very good point! Thank you!

I think I just need to nail down the comp architecture. I'd prefer to keep the comp block rather straightforward, so I think that eliminates an OTA circuit. What do bass folks have better experiences with, optical or JFET-based compressors?

I think modern tastes lean a bit more towards optical, but JFET is more the flavor of the old stuff. The 1176 is a FET compressor, and that’s like the gold standard for vintage bass compression (though it’s obviously more complicated than an Orange squeezer or other similar basic FET comp design). The coloration of most typical JFET compressors sounds fantastic, it’s just not particularly ideal by modern hifi standards, you know? If you’re going for a compressor that a typical bassist in 2021 will go crazy for, an optical compressor is your best bet, and it’ll be able to get you a bit of that 60s and 70s sound as well, but if you’re making a purpose-built compressor for trying to nail those old school compression tones of McCartney et al. then a JFET architecture is the way to go.

 

[benny_profane]

Awesome! Thanks so much for your help here. I’ll dig around for some FET-based comp designs and narrow down the JFET output stage!

 

[giovanni]

Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to Abbey Road: that was the first album they recorded using a transistor mixer rather than a tube one. I read somewhere that the tube one rolled off a bit more bass and had a different type of compression, while the transistor one was also cleaner, I guess higher fidelity essentially. I wonder if a colour box type preamp would work too?

 

[bowanderror]

As Bricksnbeatles & peccary mentioned, the Beatles bass sound starts with the strings and how you play them. I've had good luck with both flatwound & tapewound strings, a bridge mute, and a pick. I think the flat/tapewound sound played with a pick is the core part of Paul McCartney's technique (see this TalkBass thread):
Strings:

• Pyramid flatwound - original manufacturer for Hofner strings, again in 2010
• Rotosound flatwound - mid-‘60s, again in the 80s/90s
• Rotosound Tru Bass black nylonwound - During the Let it Be sessions.

Picks:

• Fender Heavy pick - 351 shape
• Heavier felt pick - Dunlop still makes them
• Bert Weedon home-plate pick -

I absolutely LOVE the sound of felt picks, and would highly recommend them to bass & guitar players alike. They present a much rounder sound, and can also prevent you from resorting to a more unwieldy bridge mute.

If you want to try the bridge mute method, here are a million ways to approach it. I like the sound of felt, rather than foam, mutes because I find it easier to get more subtle muted sounds more easily. Carol Kaye has some great tips on her site, including this one on her bridge mute setup:

"The way I mute the strings is by folding over a piece of felt muting (buy at the sewing section) so it's doubled to a width of about 1-1/2". Take it & tape it (I use masking tape) to on top of the bridge area, but laying slightly ahead of the bridges. It won't be too loose but you will have to re-tape it tighter from time to time. Thus, it lays on top of the strings and kills the over- & under-tones, making your bass sounds more defined.

• You use a doubled up piece of felt *on top* of the strings when you play *only* with a pick.
• If you play with fingers (or even with fingers sometime and then pick sometime), then get a piece of foam about the same width, but fit *underneath* the strings, barely touching the strings. This takes some doing. You don't want the foam to mute the strings so much it gives off a "plunk" sound, yet you need it to touch all the strings relatively the same amount.

The strings in all instances should ring almost as much as if there wasn't any muting at all. In recording, it's a must."